Sphinx 7 Report post Posted October 23, 2011 Smaky, you're going on a road trip. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kev Bassett 1 Report post Posted October 23, 2011 Smaky, you're going on a road trip. Let's make it a AD road trip to Italy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter2 1 Report post Posted October 23, 2011 would be a pleasure guys! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted October 23, 2011 Throw the tents on the trailer....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kev Bassett 1 Report post Posted October 23, 2011 Throw the tents on the trailer....... Would be an epic trip, shame it would never happen? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anjenha 44 Report post Posted October 23, 2011 I did it was epic indeed Every time I see this thread I have a little smile '5ft' bless Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter2 1 Report post Posted October 24, 2011 back in topic: i went to alfa mechanic, he attached the examiner...(after swearing against alfadiag/FES users fiddling around with actuators paraemeters...imagine me trying not to laugh on his face)...engine off, all gears up until stuck in 5th...no beeping, no errors recorded, parameters ok...he said:"must be the ecu or the gearbox" I: "how much to pull it down and check it?" 700 euro... went back to my mechanic and forced him to pull it down. news soon. PS in order to change the clutch and bearing, is it necessary to pull down the gearbox? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted October 24, 2011 PS in order to change the clutch and bearing, is it necessary to pull down the gearbox? You need to remove the gearbox to do it, and if you are removing the gearbox anyway to check it out then it's purely the cost of the Clutch kit (170 euro) and about 10 minutes extra to swap it, the gearbox though will be the issue, if you can get hold of a second hand 2.0 box from either a 145, 146, 147, 155, 156, GTV or GT then you'll be able to use the gearset from those in you original casing as long as it's not damaged. P.S. Examiner is the worst thing to use on selespeeds, I shall mock your Alfa tech for years to come... And it's not the sele ecu. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter2 1 Report post Posted October 24, 2011 You need to remove the gearbox to do it, and if you are removing the gearbox anyway to check it out then it's purely the cost of the Clutch kit (170 euro) and about 10 minutes extra to swap it, i'm not able find a clutch kit for 170 euro...lowest I can find is 270 euro + 25 delivery the gearbox though will be the issue, if you can get hold of a second hand 2.0 box from either a 145, 146, 147, 155, 156, GTV or GT then you'll be able to use the gearset from those in you original casing as long as it's not damaged. actually i was planning (more properly hoping) to substitute only the syncros...or the worn gears..is it possible? P.S. Examiner is the worst thing to use on selespeeds, I shall mock your Alfa tech for years to come... And it's not the sele ecu. i've been told that a magneti marelli instrument can access a lot of hidden functions un selem ecu: do you know anything abou it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted October 24, 2011 You need to remove the gearbox to do it' date=' and if you are removing the gearbox anyway to check it out then it's purely the cost of the Clutch kit (170 euro) and about 10 minutes extra to swap it,[/quote'] i'm not able find a clutch kit for 170 euro...lowest I can find is 270 euro + 25 delivery I can get a kit (Valeo) for you and send it for about 220 Euros. the gearbox though will be the issue' date=' if you can get hold of a second hand 2.0 box from either a 145, 146, 147, 155, 156, GTV or GT then you'll be able to use the gearset from those in you original casing as long as it's not damaged.[/quote']actually i was planning (more properly hoping) to substitute only the syncros...or the worn gears..is it possible? It's quicker and cheaper to get the second hand box a swap the gears over. P.S. Examiner is the worst thing to use on selespeeds' date=' I shall mock your Alfa tech for years to come... And it's not the sele ecu.[/quote']i've been told that a magneti marelli instrument can access a lot of hidden functions un selem ecu: do you know anything abou it? FES can do everything the Examiner can apart from reprogramme the Sele ECU, but if you need that doing then the thing is fried and should be replaced anyway, plus FES gives you the clutch length to the thousanth of a mm as opposed to the examiners "Too long, too short" display which doesn't give you a clue how close to the limit it is and why most seles adjusted at Alfa dealers end up shredding the gearbox a year later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter2 1 Report post Posted October 24, 2011 I can get a kit (Valeo) for you and send it for about 220 Euros. ok, i'll keep that in mind. does it include all the bearings?It's quicker and cheaper to get the second hand box a swap the gears over. mmm...after all this thing, aren't you curious abaout what's going in it?? i definetly am!! FES can do everything the Examiner can apart from reprogramme the Sele ECU, but if you need that doing then the thing is fried and should be replaced anyway, plus FES gives you the clutch length to the thousanth of a mm as opposed to the examiners "Too long, too short" display which doesn't give you a clue how close to the limit it is and why most seles adjusted at Alfa dealers end up shredding the gearbox a year later. oh my god...that is hilarious... i don't know if i made myself clear in my previous post, but i was talking about a Magneti Marelli instrument, not Fiat examiner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted October 24, 2011 Complete 3 piece clutch kit. I know what's gone in it and this is why it's quicker to swap the complete set of shafts over. Examiner uses the MM software adapted into the units programme, I know what it does as I was involved in its development and have a few of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter2 1 Report post Posted October 24, 2011 i will tell you tomorrow if i need the clutch. thanks a lot. how much would it be a complete gearbox shipped? i'm a bit afraid of going to the junkyard (is it the corect name??) and blindly take one box from a crashed car... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted October 25, 2011 i will tell you tomorrow if i need the clutch. thanks a lot.how much would it be a complete gearbox shipped? i'm a bit afraid of going to the junkyard (is it the corect name??) and blindly take one box from a crashed car... Boxes are hard to come by andI do it on an exchange basis, ut tooooooship ne to you would probably be close to the cars value. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter2 1 Report post Posted October 25, 2011 i will tell you tomorrow if i need the clutch. thanks a lot.how much would it be a complete gearbox shipped? i'm a bit afraid of going to the junkyard (is it the corect name??) and blindly take one box from a crashed car... Boxes are hard to come by andI do it on an exchange basis, ut tooooooship ne to you would probably be close to the cars value. mechanic opened the gearbox, everything is fine there...but the clutch is completely gone...can it be the cause of my problem? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted October 26, 2011 The clutch probably is part of the cause, but for it only to refuse to select 4th on the way down and the bit of metal found would suggest that there IS a problem inside the gearbox. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter2 1 Report post Posted October 30, 2011 The clutch probably is part of the cause, but for it only to refuse to select 4th on the way down and the bit of metal found would suggest that there IS a problem inside the gearbox. here ai am. the mechanic had the gearbox and the clutch removed and dismounted (i found a new affordable clutch on ebay, thank you anyway, Smaky ) here is the picture of the lock washer (right word for it?) that was broken. it was locking a spring mounted on the axle coming out of the selespeed actuator. here are two more pics, picture1 and picture2 , of the place where the washer was placed. in the second one you can see also the fifth mechanism on the table. i suppose it was something like this here is the picture of the gears. here is the picture the clutch-side of the gearbox. here is another picture of the gearbox. in this picture i can see some wearing of the left hole edge which i haven't previously noticed. i haven't seen any damage to the gears. here are two pics of the clutch: pic1 pic2in the first one you can clearly see where the bearing was scraping. in the second one the disc seems to be uniformly (though deeply) worn. do you think i have any chance to get it working correctly again by replacing the clutch and the washer? PS i forgot to say that when i took the car from the alfa tech to my mechanic, i tried to shift down from 5ft to 3rd at once (double click on the left steer lever) and it got stuck as usual. i did it in order to see if it was the 4th syncro causing the issue...is this method sufficient to rule out the 4th syncro? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted October 30, 2011 The shattered locking ring on the input shaft will be alllowing too much movement of the setectors and therefore possibly jamming and refusing to engage4th, obviously we can't see inside the synchros from the angle the pics are at and the 5th is comlpletely obscured until striped down, the pic if the center case just needed to go left a bit more so both loops could be seen then all possibilities would be covered, also have him check that the balls in the engagement plugs are free to compress and reseat and that the 2 dowels and the pin haven't gone missing from the selectors or you'll be right up the creek. The clutch is shot, the release bearing has clearly collapsed and worn the pressure plate fingers off center, the friction plate normally wears more on the other side, but it doesn't really matter as all 3 pieces of the clutch need replacing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted October 30, 2011 Lock Ring part number - 7623208 But I suspect that is a bit of the upper bush part number 7612844 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter2 1 Report post Posted October 31, 2011 The shattered locking ring on the input shaft will be alllowing too much movement of the setectors and therefore possibly jamming and refusing to engage4th, i hope it is like that! however i had the impression that it could be not: the spring in the picture is compressed even without the locking ring, if you compress it more (towards the selespeed actuator unit) and release it, it goes back into the position in the pics, so the locking ring could prevent it from sliding further no more than a couple of mms. obviously we can't see inside the synchros from the angle the pics are at and the 5th is comlpletely obscured until striped down' date='[/quote']the mechanich showed me that the rings moved by the forks are free to engage/disengage every gear (by hand) the pic if the center case just needed to go left a bit more so both loops could be seen then all possibilities would be covered' date='[/quote']what are the "loops"? also have him check that the balls in the engagement plugs are free to compress and reseat and that the 2 dowels and the pin haven't gone missing from the selectors or you'll be right up the creek.can you explain what the underlined words stand for? maybe you can say which number they refer to here The clutch is shot' date=' the release bearing has clearly collapsed and worn the pressure plate fingers off center, the friction plate normally wears more on the other side, but it doesn't really matter as all 3 pieces of the clutch need replacing.[/quote']the clutch is on its way... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter2 1 Report post Posted October 31, 2011 Lock Ring part number - 7623208 But I suspect that is a bit of the upper bush part number 7612844 looks to me very similar to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted October 31, 2011 The shattered locking ring on the input shaft will be alllowing too much movement of the setectors and therefore possibly jamming and refusing to engage4th, i hope it is like that! however i had the impression that it could be not: the spring in the picture is compressed even without the locking ring, if you compress it more (towards the selespeed actuator unit) and release it, it goes back into the position in the pics, so the locking ring could prevent it from sliding further no more than a couple of mms. obviously we can't see inside the synchros from the angle the pics are at and the 5th is comlpletely obscured until striped down' date='[/quote']the mechanich showed me that the rings moved by the forks are free to engage/disengage every gear (by hand) the pic if the center case just needed to go left a bit more so both loops could be seen then all possibilities would be covered' date='[/quote']what are the "loops"? also have him check that the balls in the engagement plugs are free to compress and reseat and that the 2 dowels and the pin haven't gone missing from the selectors or you'll be right up the creek.can you explain what the underlined words stand for? maybe you can say which number they refer to here The clutch is shot' date=' the release bearing has clearly collapsed and worn the pressure plate fingers off center, the friction plate normally wears more on the other side, but it doesn't really matter as all 3 pieces of the clutch need replacing.[/quote']the clutch is on its way... This pic, item 13 http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi?MOD ... &DRW_NUM=2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter2 1 Report post Posted November 1, 2011 This pic, item 13http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi?MOD ... &DRW_NUM=2 i'll check it. thanks! are we talking about these, close up? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted November 1, 2011 This pic, item 13http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi?MOD ... &DRW_NUM=2 i'll check it. thanks! are we talking about these, close up? Nope. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter2 1 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 clutch arrived, machanic said he is rebuilding the whole car. smaky, i seem to remember a post of yours (on ao forum) on the procedure to correctly fill the selespeed actuator... can you link it, please? thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
