Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 7, 2013 So, just to summarize.. I installed the following parts last week, on top of the necessary additional parts to complement the fact that I had to remove the heads and replace cams. Installed: - 4.5L Plenum from Germany - Reprofiled and nitride hardened cams (Renault Specs) - 1.3mm skimmed heads - 78mm ID throttle body with fabricated adaptor - remounted ECU on the firewall. Picked up the car, and it sounded more raw. not a good thing in these parts as it does attract the cops a bit. With the cams, there is a slight hint of ECU doing a bit of searching at idle. On the go, the torque down low is awesome, makes first gear almost redundant, and I was just taking it really easy. ECU is still adapting and making adjustments, it feels lean sometimes, and rich other times. Hopefully the Dyno tune I scheduled for this week will get it spot on. Didn't really push the car cause I just want to make sure the install is perfect and there are no leaks or cracks in any of the piping. Didn't want it to go too lean either and burn any valves. Man, the engine sounds RAW! I've already got CF2s, Equal length pipes matching up to Quad Novitec exhaust installed perviously..... as it is, but now, it sounds a little like a rally car. Will need to get the car to an engine detailer soon before I take more pics of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
K9d 108 Report post Posted October 7, 2013 I fear you may have made a grave error here Reprofiled and nitride hardened cams (Renault Specs) My wife has a Renault and it causes more problems than both my Alfas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gibot123 16 Report post Posted October 7, 2013 I would agree but they do also make exceeding good F1engines Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 8, 2013 Haha, specs as in the the lift and duration...etc ... LOL not a Renault car though the RS270 is an amazing car.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 8, 2013 Day 1 The engine note is much more mechanical. I could hear it more pronounced than before. On start up As expected, the ECU is hunting, and getting used to the new AF mixture. After about 10-15mins.... it settled down more. The idle is not as rough as you'd expect with wilder cams. After settling down, it would just hunt after every 8-10 secs of idle First drive Its like the 1st gear is no longer required, the torque on response is much better. It feels light and very progressive, no kick in the butt feel. That saying, I'm only letting it run in, and make sure that all the parts are well installed, and if there are any leaks or errors, I can head back and get it fixed sooner rather than later. On the Move I didn't push the car beyond 3500 rpm, It does most of its daily driving thing way below that. I feel the response better at 2000rpm onwards. Below that, its just like its on auto cruise mode. Some say its loss of low end response, but the 1st gear just climbs up too quickly and I have to shift it into 2nd fast. At the first traffic light, the MSCF light came on, but after 10-15 secs it went off. It was fine during the drive, but the MSCF came on again when I parked the car back home. Might get it checked tomorrow. The car is going in for a dyno tune this week I hope. Not going to rush the car into anything more crazy than just daily driving and checking that all the parts work together well. Will I get 300hp? I don't know, but I'd be happy with 285-290hp or so, and have a huge area under the curve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Day 2[/size][/font][/color] Car starts up very rich. Takes a much longer time to warm up. Water temp takes longer to reach 90. stays mostly at 80-85. and I am in 35 degree climate. Oil temp is at 2 bars most of the way, where it used to get to 3 bars after a drive to work. Throttle response used to be gradual, now it feels exponential. Almost like a small turbo got installed. At 2500rpm, the car is raring to go. Must be the cams. Haven't gone past 4000rpm yet. Edited October 8, 2013 by Saabretooth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Day 3 Car still runs nicely, with the normal irregular idling as expected. Now the MSCF is on due to the fueling I'm sure. Car still makes good power across the rpm range. I suspect if I went back on to stock rear exhaust instead of the Quad pipe, I'll get even more response as compared the current one. Car warms up as it used to now and water temp is running at 90 degrees again. The noise is amazing though, and its like I only have 4 gears, 1,3, 5 and 6. I can skip gears now with all that torque and its not even complaining. The tuner is busy prepping for race overseas and can only schedule me for end of next week. Hope to get a dyno done pre and post tune. Edited October 9, 2013 by Saabretooth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJ_GQV 115 Report post Posted October 9, 2013 Any chance of a some pics or a video? Sounds like a beast of a car now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 10, 2013 I wish I could post an audio clip.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJ_GQV 115 Report post Posted October 10, 2013 You could put it in photobucket or even on youtube & link from there? Be good to see some photo's if you get time though Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 11, 2013 Day 4/5 Took the car for a spin and gave it the gas a bit more. Pulled it up to 5500 rpm and she responded very well. Felt a bit weaker on the low end for some strange reason..... might have been the car adapting.... BUT.... On the way to the workshop to take a look at the MSCF error code, she started to behave like a boxer engine, with the mistimed firing and a lot more raw. Still made good power, but you know its not normal. Cruising in, and had the bonnet opened for the workshop manager.... lo and behold a split vacuum hose pipe, causing the car the have really off air/fuel mixture. Not only that, via the FiatScan ECU, noticed that cylinder 6 was not firing. Checked the ignition coil and confirmed it was dead. It was replaced with a spare used one and she was running smooth again. The low end power came right back on with no more MSCF. Note from the workshop manager, to get the intake piping elbow sorted out with a fabricated one ASAP as the current set up is only temporary. The odd angle due to the extension of the piping puts unnecessary stress on the other pipes, especially when the engine rocks and rolls under hard acceleration. The manager suggested that I get cables and move the battery to the boot and create both space and air flow for the intake piping. It was a nice to have project, but looks like it has to be a must do project if I want to create longevity for this car. Will work on the pics, audio and video clips too. Watch this space Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 11, 2013 Here it goes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJ_GQV 115 Report post Posted October 11, 2013 sounds pretty good good result with sorting the MCSF light too . I've seen a few people have moved the battery into the spare wheel bit of the boot for more space/weight distribution Can't wait to see some pics, not much beats a white GT for looks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 12, 2013 Yeah, thats the plan, to move the battery to the back. ECU is adapting and its dumping fuel in the lower rpms now, so its getting sluggish, loss of low end, but when the revs pile up, the car roars and pulls. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted October 15, 2013 Day 3 Car still runs nicely, with the normal irregular idling as expected. Now the MSCF is on due to the fueling I'm sure. You were warned, this is the ECU telling you that your screwing around with the heads etc was way beyond that which should be done, it clearly doesn't like the french element of your mod and the 78mm TB you fitted is a waste of time, the cances are that the MCSF is linked to a TB fault or it's pinking badly due to underfueling, which will just be wearing the engine away internally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spider95 0 Report post Posted October 16, 2013 I'm all for 'mods' but when you start mucking about with the internals of this great engine are you not asking for trouble? And I don't have any time for French cars or bits of French cars - they are all totally horrible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiffy 99 Report post Posted October 17, 2013 I've come to the conclusion that the busso engine as standard is as far as it will go. So I need to to move on in terms of power and speed etc. the modern engine has too many controls etc. I think there is more to had from a RWD 75 oh and a 4.5 turbo cayenne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 17, 2013 Thanks for the advise guys. I don't pretend to know too much about the Busso engine and all I am doing is a researched work on it. There is no French part in the car, unless we're talking about croissant crumbs on the carpet. Its still the same original cams that came with the engine, that has been re profiled for a little more lift duration without having to change lifters etc. The heads have been milled down 1.3 mm. its upped the compression with enough clearance for the pistons and all the moving parts to clear. The milling of the heads is not necessary, but it was an extra step I took within the tolerance of the engine. At worst, I have a spare set of heads to replace it with. The next step is tuning the ECU fueling to match the new parameters... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 24, 2013 Finally, got the car tuned up. It was running rich across the rpm range. Slightly rough idle due to the overlap in the cam profile. Did a on the day dyno and came in at 257Hp and 317Nm. Not surprisingly, due to the bigger throttle body and plenum, the air speed slows down more. After tightening up the fueling and a touch of fine tuning, its running at 275hp and 330Nm. Its no where near 300hp but I am not going to complain. I am not surprised at the lower readings as the fuel was on its last 1/3 and has been in the tank for over a week. Ambient temps are a little higher as well...... The torque is up across the entire band and has a slightly larger area under the curve. She drives very smooth now, maybe like a slightly larger bored engine.... or a very mild turbo charged car with the gains nearer the mid range onward. Will watch and monitor the readings and will get a data logger to see how she is behaving. Water and oil temps are steady. No real change from pre-tune. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiffy 99 Report post Posted October 24, 2013 Nice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 24, 2013 Well you guys got the first hand news to this Might just do a touch up on the car sometime down the road. I am on the F430 TB as the workshop mixed it up and installed the wrong one for me. I was supposed to get the the 78mm TBwith a fabricated adapter, and my buddy was supposed to go on the F430 TB once his ordered parts are in. If I switch out to the 78mm TB, I'll do dyno again and re-tune to see how it goes with the mapping and power band. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
K9d 108 Report post Posted October 24, 2013 Surely the bling pipes are the restriction not the TB. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 25, 2013 Bling pipes? you mean the chrome pipes? Just did a fresh full tank of 98 octane gas.... car feels a lot quicker and the idle more stable. but I doubt its going to add another 10hp.... if it did, the queue at caltex is going to be long.... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiffy 99 Report post Posted October 25, 2013 I admire what you are doing and one day I am going to have a go at pushing the busso engine further (well an engine shop) to see how much can be juiced from it safety. Keep it up interesting reading K9d is right in a way the only restriction you now have is those chrome trumpets and the inlet ports if they could be made larger than the larger TB and plenum would work well I reckon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saabretooth 8 Report post Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) I was given the option of larger ports, but I declined as I wanted low end responsiveness as well. Didnt want it to feel so empty in the lower rpms. As it is, the engine feels very racey and 1st and 2nd felt too short, (for now anyway) the limitation now is probably the driver and I'll be sharpening up my shifting and shift points. keeping the rpms constant and at about 3000-4000rpm, you can literally hear the busso at work..... as I was climbing an incline up to the expressway. Holding it in 3rd or 4th, felt so effortless. The rush is definitely after 4000 rpm, as if a mini rocket was shoved under the rpm needle. Edited October 25, 2013 by Saabretooth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites