Drops To Neutral

[gorge1982 0]

Hi forum!

 

Well, after right on twelve months of Alfa ownership, here it is. My first "issue".

 

I have a 2007 147 Ti Selespeed, and was stopped at a set of traffic lights a few days ago, and the gearbox dropped to Neutral from first. It has done thing a few times if I sit in the one spot for too long (which I think is meant to happen), and I have always been able to shift it back into first, and I am away.

 

Not on this occasion. Was stuck in neutral. Was able to get some assistance and push the car to the side of the road. Turned it off. Waited 60 seconds, and turned it back on. Was able to shift into first, and I turned around and headed straight home. First to second, to third, to fourth was all fine, but when I came to an intersection (right in the middle of it), it slipped into neutral again, and with cars wizzing around me - I was in danger.

 

Repeat the off, wait 60 seconds, start again procedure until I got home, and here I am. I checked the Selespeed chamber, and there was enough fluid.

 

As per usual, any information or advice is appreciated. I will be hooking up Multiecuscan tonight, and will have some codes for you tomorrow, if that helps.

[twisted_pr 16]

Mr Selespeed (aka Smaky) will be along when he can to point you in the right direction.

 

Something very similar happened to mine. Could be a number of things, but turns out it was the pump, which was a relatively straightforward refurb to fix job (there's a guide here somewhere). Way to tell was that when the problem happened, the pump would not prime when opening the driver's door or trying to select a gear. Gave the pump a gentle(ish) tap and voila, it whirred again. When I took the pump apart the carbon brushes were worn to stump. Filed down a replacement set, soldered in place, reassembled and refitted. Job's a goodun (and saved me best part of £250)

[gorge1982 0]

@ twisted_pr. Thanks for that. I hooked up the diagnostic program tonight, and as I only have the basic cable, all I could check was the Selespeed and engine, and there were no faults/fault codes listed.

 

The only things I can note are that there is a "Right Side Light Failure" coming on when I turn the car over, which didn't happen before, and also, the pump is making a funny noise when I open a car door, so I think we have identified our problem, am I right?

[Bigdar 62]

I think the pump is supposed to make a noise when you open the door, it's the pump priming.

[twisted_pr 16]

The pump makes a noise when you open the driver's door - and as Biggy says, this is priming the system. This should be the usual whirring noise (possibly slightly lower tone if the battery is low) and not a "funny" noise. If the pump's brushes are on their way out, then the pump will work intermittently. If the dropping into neutral fault has occurred and/or you're not getting the pump noise when opening the driver's door, tap the pump a couple of times - if the pump then whirrs it probably means the brushes are worn out on the inside and will need replacing as per the tutorial/guide.

 

I'm afraid that's where my Selespeed knowledge ends and it could be a number of things with your system - so, over to Smaky!

[LJ_GQV 115]

Could it be a battery problem? I have no clue when it comes to selespeed stuff but when the batteries have got old/gone flat on my 147 & my GTA there were a few strange things happening with that?

[gorge1982 0]

Thanks. If it was the pump that was the issue though, and it was worn out/needed replacing, would this cause the gears to drop to neutral from first at a standstill?

[Smaky 73]

No, as you said after 2 minutes the car will dump to N to save system pressure, if it then wil not re-engage a gear I suspect either the brake pedal switch (unlikely) or the accumulator to have failed.

[gorge1982 0]

Hi Smaky, there is actually an error/fault for a Brake Pedal Switch in the diagnostic program. This is something I kept clearing, as I thought it was only a small issue (now seems a dumb thing to do).

Shall I get this checked out first, before I go down the path of the accumulator?

[gorge1982 0]

Further to that, the Brake Pedal Switch error has been coming up for the 12 months I have had the car, and the problem dropping to neutral has only just started occuring, but as I mentioned the other day, when the car started dropping into neutral, I was getting an error on the dashboard saying "RIGHT SIDE LIGHT FAILURE".

Edited July 15, 2013 by gorge1982

[Smaky 73]

I think replacing the brake pedal switch is the first thing to do.

[gorge1982 0]

I think replacing the brake pedal switch is the first thing to do.

 

Thanks Smaky. I appreciate your help.

[gorge1982 0]

I think replacing the brake pedal switch is the first thing to do.

Hi Smaky, I had the Brake Pedal Switch replaced, the fault cleared, and the vehicle isn't dropping to neutral, as it was previously.

[Smaky 73]

So is it driving fine now?

[gorge1982 0]

So is it driving fine now?

To this point, yes. Will advise if that changes. Thanks again.

[gorge1982 0]

Hi Smaky. Stopped again today at a set of lights. Dropped to neutral, and wouldn't engage gear.

[gorge1982 0]

Went back to the car on my lunch break. Was able to engage first gear after pushing the gear stick the fifth time. Drove it the 400m to the mechanic. He will assess, but he isn't an Alfa Specialist, and the first thing he said when he saw the car was "sounds like the actuator I replaced on a Selespeed last week". Oh dear.

[alison50 0]

Hi Looks like we have same issue please keep us updated Thanks , Alison

[Smaky 73]

OK, IT IS NOT AN ACTUATOR. I think we can now start to look at a worn clutch.

[gorge1982 0]

The previous mechanic could only source a second hand Brake Pedal Switch. This mechanic claims that the fault code is once again presenting. He has replaced the Brake Pedal Switch with a new one, so was able to get away with that for $100 including labour. Will drive it around the next few days and see how it goes. Did you also say something about it possibly being the accumulator? Because I will get him to check that out next, or should I go straight for the clutch?

[gorge1982 0]

Hi Smaky, I have been told that the pump that primes when you open the door, should only prime for 6-8 seconds.

 

I opened the driver's door for the first time in two days, and the pump took 13.7 seconds to prime. Could this be the problem?

 

This could be a reason why the car is driving 30kms, and then dropping into neutral? Could it be holding pressure for a certain amount of time and then losing it?

 

I have been given some advice on a min. and max. pressure that I should be checking in MES, and will give you those figures soon.

 

Thanks.

[Smaky 73]

The pump can take upto 15 seconds to prime when you open the door depending on how far it has dropped off, the pressure when the ignition is on should remain between 44 and 55 Bar and without doing anything it is acceptable for it to drop over a 10 minute period to 44 Bar and the pump to prime back to 55. If the pump is priming past 60Bar then it's a sign that the accumulator may be going, if the pump sounds really graunchy then it may need the brushes replacing on the motor, so the question is how long does it sit between primes with the ignition on?

[gorge1982 0]

Hi Smaky, just a bit of an update. As on previous occasions, all was well for 40km-50km of driving, and the gearbox threw itself into Neutral again.

One difference this time though, is that the pump is no longer priming, and this includes after I have left it for half an hour, and opened the door.

 

I am guessing this is a fair indication it's the pump

 

Shall I get this replaced?

[Smaky 73]

You can just replace the brushes for a fraction f the cost as it is not the pump at fault but merely the motor which drives it, but yes I think we are now at the point of condeming the pump motor, there is a guide on here about replacing the brushes if you fancy a go.

[gorge1982 0]

I don't think I am that stage yet, Smaky, but am learning all the time, so might give it a miss at this stage, and let a mechanic do it.

 

As I am in Australia though, it would seem like I am looking at about $600 (356 pounds) for a new pump, but someone put me onto EB Spares in the UK, and the pump seems to only be $350 (208 pounds), which is quite a saving - and I am told that they deliver quickly too, so I may go down that path.

 

Are there any other online sites you can recommend for the purchase of new/used Alfa parts that will deliver to Australia?

 

Thanks again. Daniel