Davo 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2013 It's been a couple of months since a thorough wiring re-jig solved my problems with multiple sensor errors but now I seem to have another issue creeping in. First symptom was a drop in reverse while driving (only on the display obviously) then a couple of drops into neutral. Sele failure messages and difficulty getting it started - a few selections in mar prior to starting did the trick. Straight onto MES at home, no errors and pressures was fine, rod length spot on but some strange sounds on cycling the gears. Attempts to calibrate failed - didn't get past the first clutch bleed stage and came up with a clutch valve error. That strange sound was the clutch solenoid failing to get the clutch rod extending fully. The solenoid would work OK via manual actuation with the software but with the engine idling in neutral the clutch rod was pulsing in and out about a centimeter a few times every second. I figured that must be the o-rings not sealing correctly (i.e. the engine was good and hot). Now I have the original EVO solenoid from the troubleshooting last year and being a quick job I fitted it and immediately got a successful clutch bleed + calibration. Long test drive was fine but on checking the clutch rod while idling straight afterwards it was still pulsing just as badly! Five days of daily (short) drives later and just had a single drop into neutral so this one isn't going to go away! I'm guessing the clutch rod isn't supposed to move while idling in neutral and I know it is a symptom that tends to indicate the o-rings are shot. Both the EVOs I have are second hand so I have no idea how old they are - I can pretty easily source some new o-rings and give that a try.... This sele really is trying my patience - every time the phone rings I expect it to be the daughter calling to say she is stuck somewhere! Pity because apart from the sele the car is a cracker..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted January 17, 2013 First thing I would try is either run the calbration with another car running and jump leads between them to boost the battery or replace the battery as I suspect that low voltage is causing this problem now and this time of year it is the season for this issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
K9d 108 Report post Posted January 17, 2013 I think given his location of Sydney the weather is slightly warmer than ours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2013 Yeah - "only" 43 degrees C today in Sydney Battery is only a few months old (replaced during the last round of troubleshooting and hitting 14 volts with the engine running so it feels OK). Calibrations have been spot on since the EV0 swap but I haven't had it hooked up to MES during the week. Key question: should the clutch rod be moving at all with the engine idling in Neutral? I'm not getting any kangarooing or clutch drag symptoms but it sure doesn't look right to see that clutch rod "pulsing" so obviously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 OK forget the last comment then, forgot your in aus and it's a little warmer there today. Pulsing clutch rod would normally signify a faulty EV0 seal so unfortunately your going to have too remove the valve again and replace the 3 seals on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 0 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 At least it is only a 20 minute job! The right sized o-rings are a little tricky to track down but I should be able to find them next week - 10.5, 11.5 and 12.5 ID at 1.2 or 1.5mm thickness from some basic research?? ... and it hit 45 degrees today (record temp for Sydney), glad for undercover parking at work! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 Yeah - "only" 43 degrees C today in Sydney Battery is only a few months old (replaced during the last round of troubleshooting and hitting 14 volts with the engine running so it feels OK). Calibrations have been spot on since the EV0 swap but I haven't had it hooked up to MES during the week. Key question: should the clutch rod be moving at all with the engine idling in Neutral? I'm not getting any kangarooing or clutch drag symptoms but it sure doesn't look right to see that clutch rod "pulsing" so obviously. Didnt you guys get to 45.7 today? Not the best weather to work on a car! We had 42 a cpl of days ago, dropped to 35 overnight where i am... Yuk. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 Oh, i just read your last post - 45 degrees.. Thats the sorta weather that melts roads... Heres hoping it eases for you, along with the fires. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 0 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 Definitely a "drinks in the pool after work" day.....(and the pool was up to 33 degrees as well) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 Haha... Ill never forget a yacht race i crewed in a few years ago.. It was so hot that day that at the end of the race, at the marina all the crews jumped overboard, used the mooring lines to sit on, and eskies floating, full of bear, as far as the eye could see.. Hundres of people floating in geelong marina drinking. It was over 40 that day too.. Awesome stuff.. Except for the 3rd degree sunburn! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 yep. It's down to -3C her and the snow is heavy, 6 inches overnight so far and the schools have closed, buses are giving up and for some reason there's panic buying at the shops, thanks to the brilliant press in this country Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Alarmism, the press love it.. Over here they are already blaming global warming for the fires.. It doesnt seem to bother them that there isnt a shred of evidence to support it.. But we lap it up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited January 18, 2013 by Alfa156Melb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 0 Report post Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) This is getting "interesting" - lots of new leads to chase down to get the Sele sorted; no huge problems over the last few weeks - two or three drops into neutral while idling one drop into neutral at speed Having sourced some o-rings I went to install today but first checked the errors - had a new one (or three); That looks like the one at speed.... other two were at standstill, not sure what the lever switch relates to: Now my pump / accumulator / realys have always been pretty solid - this is the first suggestion of a relay issue. While mulling this new error over in my mind I went about replacing the o-rings to fix my "pulsing" clutch rod; ....and this is what came out of my long-suffering sele actuator - split o-ring; I'm surprised the thing was working at all.... oh well, new orings installed (all Viton); Just to round off the day with frustration I didn't have enough sele oil to top it up and calibrate - off to the dealer tomorrow to get some, might check out a relay as well..... Cheers Edited February 17, 2013 by Davo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted February 17, 2013 Nothing makes me happier than a spot on diagnosis, and for the cost of a few seals and a litre of CS Speed you'll b on your way Aus$30 max (I'd guess), I know all the indies over here would either go "Scrap the car" or "That'll be £1600 for a new actuator", it's amazing what untrained parts monkeys can get away with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 0 Report post Posted February 17, 2013 Hi Smaky - you're up early (or late???) Fingers crossed mate! So what are those two "lever switch" errors? I'll drop in a new relay just to be sure, might move it away from the engine as well to get it away from the heat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted February 17, 2013 The lever switch errors occur when you hold the stick in postion for too long, it thinks that the swithes are stuck on and throws the code, they also always come in pairs when you do that so we can tell they are false codes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2013 Good one - so that was daughter trying to find a gear I assume! On to the present: topped the oil up tonight and ran a heap of clutch drains and gear cycling (I was getting a bit worried as it took a bit of coaxing to get around the "sele failure" messages). The oil reservoir was full of foam at this stage as the air was working its way out. I had a couple of failures trying to get a cal over the line - the clutch movement happened with a loud "squishing" sound and the actuator was making sounds like a bunch of ball bearings in a can! The rational side of my brain kept reminding me there was a heap of air to bleed out - but I was starting to picture needing a tow to the garage..... Still sounding rough but with a successful cal under my belt I figured I needed some heat into the system so I headed out the driveway and took it for a run - what a huge surprise: the gear changing was absolutely wonderful, I'm talking 50% better than anyhing I have experienced with the car in my two years of ownership. No kidding it was exactly like driving a normal automatic and the downshifts were just sublime (and this was cold!). 10 minutes of thrashing around the neighbourhood and back for a "hot" calibration - the oil had cleared up by now and the actuator was back to making normal sounds - all good. Another 20 minutes of error free driving this apparently "new" car and I was all smiles. Could this be what a real Selespeed is like? Of course I know a few test drives don't imply a successful fix but I can certainly say those $10 o-rings have been a great investment so far. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted February 18, 2013 I think if you leave the system to ease overnight and dump any excess fluid (front left wheel arch area) and then test it out on a good run tomorrow that this sounds like you've completed the repair..... and no need to scrap it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted February 19, 2013 Happy endings! The way it should be :Big Grin: :Big Grin: :Big Grin: :Big Grin: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Well...... Not quite! The good news is that the gear shifts remain absolutely wonderful - the bad news is that it is still dropping into neutral Its happening in gear, under power and at rest with a few reverse gear flashes to add some spice. No error codes, new relay, perfect pressure and clutch rod, and I even managed to have it happen hitting the driveway after a run around the block while the MES graph was recording - pressure was just after a prime, about 50 with a perfectly smooth absoutely unremarkable profile. I just can't link the hydraulics to the problem so surely it has to be "something" else.. This thing is driving me crazy - and I troubleshoot high and low tech equipment for a living so I am very patient and understand the process and the red herrings that get in the way. I really hate to have this thing beat me but I've been working through various sele issues for two years now and have only had maximum one month trouble free in all that time. At least I have learned heaps about the system thanks to the always upbeat and knowledgeable Smaky! Wife and Daughter are ready to drop the car over the nearest cliff with me in it so it is time to hand it over to the professionals I'm afraid. I have a good indy, a well known Alfa specialist who knows the car and put the current (second hand) actuator in it - it was from a 156 I heard, modified to fit in some way.....so best he takes over again. I'll keep you posted..... Edited February 20, 2013 by Davo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted February 21, 2013 Modified to fit??? There is no difference. This is beginning to sound like one of 2 things now and neitheer will ever show up on MES. A: The gearbox is faulty internally, but first I would pull the 3 17mm locking rollers from the front of the gearbox next to the mount, you'll get some oil out but topping it up is in the same area, before refilling I'd also pull the mag plug 12mm allen about an inch away from the subframe. B: Wiring loom, this is really tricky to fault find sometimes as with all wiggly amp things a dodgy contact will test OK, best way to teast is to replace the loom (though not cheap). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) You know I figure most of my issues have been electrical rather than mechanical on the sele - the melted wiring on the 20-pin plug two years back, flashing gears when that plug was stressed leading to replacement of the loom late last year to fix the P1742 errors etc. Driving the car for an hour this morning has convinced me it remains an electronic issue. Perfect gear changes, lovely and smooth, motoring along in 4th and the display will flick to reverse for a couple of seconds, then 3rd then 5th and either go back to neutral or just continue along happily (none of this happening at the gearbox unless it gets forced in neutral). Similarly cruising in 5th it will flash up a sele failure beep a few times and settle back to thinking it is in 5th (daughter reported it doing this after hitting a pot hole to add to the theory....). So, with the new wiring loom in place then I'm back to either a dodgy sensor on the actuator or the electrics on the "car" side of the 20 pin plug - which have had me concerned in the past....i.e. this has always had me intrigued..); This is just so difficult to sort - it will drive perfectly for 30 minutes in between episodes (and will probably behave itself at the mechanics today... Edited February 21, 2013 by Davo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
