06gta 1 Report post Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) The minister of finances 2005 JTS 156 sportwagon has the P0420 and P0430 errors (suggesting cats are cactus) it has 60m/97k on the clock. Starts well, idles fine, fuel economy is good but lacks power. Only run on 98 octane The thermostat is probably shagged as it doesn't get above 60. Plugs are due. Inlet including maf is clean Small exhaust leak near headers for first 30 seconds from cold start up Have run fuel injector cleaner, reset ecu and upper cylinder clean (seafoam) and it came good but a couple of months down the track and its running slow again. checked ecu and the errors are back. so i was going to get the leak checked, new thermostat and plugs but what about the cats. How can I be sure they are infact dead? TBH I really don't know where they are, I can see the front precats and the muffler under the handbrake - is the cat somewhere in between? Edited August 13, 2012 by 06gta Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted August 13, 2012 With the engine running rich due to the suspect thermostat, then the cats are not running at full temp and so not fully efficient, replae the thermostat and then see if the cat codes come back, but do also check that the cats aren't glowing at night which would be a coil pack or 2 OR blocked which is normally accompanied with heavy oil consumption. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
06gta 1 Report post Posted August 14, 2012 thanks smaky I'll order a thermostat asap i have a laser temp guage - just dont know where to point it - the pre-cats dont glow oil consumption is approx 1L/5000km using castrol edge full synthetic 10w60 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted August 14, 2012 IR temp guns are useless, they need to be setup to the material rediance to give a correct reading which on a painted/covered in oil engine you'll never get right. The engine runs using the same reading which MES is telling you, the guage is just an indication fed by a seperate circuit. Discrepancies are normal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
06gta 1 Report post Posted August 14, 2012 Thanks but no matter how many times i read that second sentance I dont understand it still dont know where the cats are to see if they glow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted August 14, 2012 He's saying that the temp numbers that MES/FES reports are more accurate that the sensor in the thermostat. So if you plug MES in, go to parameters and look for Engine temp - that's the number you want. The cats are right in front of the engine, on the extractors.. Under the heat shield. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
06gta 1 Report post Posted August 15, 2012 cheers alfa156melb i thought that they were pre-cats but you are saying they are infact the only cats in that case they do not glow i just need to get the new thermo and report back Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted August 15, 2012 Yeah they are precats.. the cat is more or less under the engine.. sort of mid way under the car. Then you have a resonator (Small silencer) and then the back box. but i believe its the pre cats that glow... What's MES report as your engine temp? Cheers, Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
06gta 1 Report post Posted August 15, 2012 I'l check it via MES tonight Which ones the main cat in this pic? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/trublutru/exhaust.gif Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted August 15, 2012 As i understand it, its the one after the pipe goes into a single system.. just after where it goes from two into one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
06gta 1 Report post Posted August 15, 2012 i'm not so sure as this diagram http://www.myalfa.eu/index.php?cat=c482_2-0-JTS.html has a price of 155 euro and the headers as 1646 euro. surely the cat would be over 500 euro? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted August 15, 2012 Using that graphic 1 - Pre cats 2 - flexible section 3 - Main Cat (also called a catalized silencer) 4 - Resonator 5 - Backbox ePer shows a very different picture in their graphics.. other drawings of the system also vary.. .. Let Smaky confirm or tell me I'm a bell end! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) As far as I can tell, having looked at ePer the part number you want is: 60694711 List price is: £473 ex vat.... EB Spares lists the same part for £94 ex vat.. :He He: http://www.ebspares.co.uk/alfa_156/JTS_front_silencer_OE_number_60694711/info.cfm That said, ePer upsets me, and confuses the hell out of me. I always walk away from it feeling less of a man. ePer diag referenced (#15 is what you want): Part details: Edited August 15, 2012 by Alfa156Melb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
06gta 1 Report post Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) hopefully smaky will confirm you've got it correct - that is #3 and #15 refer to the main cat i feel the same about ePer - confusing... Edited August 16, 2012 by 06gta Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
06gta 1 Report post Posted August 15, 2012 Just did a MES check on engine temp Got to bosses car 30 minutes after she got home so still warmish Ran for about 7 minutes at idle and temp gauge @ 75 but MES @ 90 took for a drive and within 2 minutes of slow driving it got down to gauge @ 62 MES @ 78 drove for a few more minutes and MES temp stayed @ 78 until I got home Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted August 15, 2012 Well, it seems slightly low.. maybe its within limits.. remember that the thermostat should open at 88 degrees.. so it should be hovering around there... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted August 15, 2012 Actually it's probably fine, if the stat was stuck open MES would report much lower temps... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted August 17, 2012 Smaky, are you able to confirm that we're on the right track here? We are confused as to the location of the main cat.. if i'm right (see above comments) why is it so cheap? otherwise if I'm wrong, can you point greg in the right direction please? Cheers.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted August 17, 2012 PM me the chassis number and I'll put up the page with all the gen for that exact car Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted August 17, 2012 Ony pay attention to M10 items: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted August 18, 2012 Ok so it's the same part. I was surprised because the ore cats are so expensive, yet the main cat is cheap as chips.. Anyway, thanks Smaky. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smaky 73 Report post Posted August 18, 2012 Because it's just a silencer on the JTS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
06gta 1 Report post Posted August 18, 2012 Thanks Smaky Thanks Dave I'll get a thermostat, new plugs and report back in a few weeks after parts arrive Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted August 18, 2012 Because it's just a silencer on the JTS. Ok. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alfa156Melb 9 Report post Posted August 18, 2012 Thanks SmakyThanks Dave I'll get a thermostat, new plugs and report back in a few weeks after parts arrive A few weeks? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites