Wobbling rod length. eol, clutch bleed 0xc error.

[radek-j 0]

First, I would like to say hello to everyone here, because this is my first post at this forum.

 

I'm, writing because I've got problems with my 1999 156 Selespeed. It crunches during shifting down from 3rd to 2nd, sometimes from 4th to 3rd (but not as hard as the former). The crunching doesn't happen if I shift down (3->2) at 2000rpm, more or less (at lower speeds it happens all the time). Moreover car woes when taking off in the morning (cold engine), you need operate accelerator very gentle. After slight warm up it's back to normal.

 

I've read lots of posts on alfaowner.com, which brought me to clutch rod adjustment and doing clutch bleed and EOL calibration routines (thanks Smaky!). I did them all - clutch bleed and EOL routines were hard to do, as they didn't want to finish properly - most of the time Alfa Diag threw out 0xC error (don't know what it is though). After numerous tried they finally completed with no errors (but I've just been lucky, clutch bleed still throws out 0xC error most of the time).

 

The clutch rod adjustment procedure also proved to be tricky - after restoring right rod length (before it was 30mm!) and tightening the nut - the reading on Alfa Diag changes after each clutch engagement, oscillating around 28.0mm with amplitude of circa 0.2mm (I don't remember the exact value, but can check it). It should be rock stable, doesn't it?

 

In the end the jerking is less violent then before, but the crunching remained. I'm concerned about synchros in the gearbox, but I'd like to check all cheaper things first. Maybe it's something wrong with clutch?

 

PS. Today I took it for a drive and haven't experienced any crunching, even when shifting from 3rd to 2nd at 3200rpm. However, I haven't tried to downshift below 2000rpm, given my previous experience.

 

Thanks in advance

[Smaky 73]

Sounds from your very precise description that this is the beginning of an accumulator failure (71751195) the 0xc is pointing at pump relay, but that's normally the fault, but the cause is the accu, if the pump primes every 10 seconds then it's definite. The grinding Changes are because they are the most system intensive uses of the actuator and as pressure dips it's not enough to hold off the clutch aswell, so it crunches in like an old crash box except at the revs where the rotational speeds are matched, in the end though this will trash the synchro if it hasn't already

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk! Because I'm on tour!

[radek-j 0]

Thanks Smaky. The pump primes every 2nd or 3rd change - I don't remember correctly. Right now I'm at work, so I'll check it in the evening.

 

But I have got some news - today in the morning, when I was going to work the gearbox light started to flash 2 to 3 minutes after I left home. I pulled over and checked the pump circuit (the pump didn't work) and found the problem: it was blown pump fuse (30A). Since I had spare one in the glovebox (just in case) I replaced it and the pump started to work, but the fuse had blown out shortly after. In order to get to work I've removed fan fuse (40A) and put it in the socket of pump fuse. That's done the job, hope I get home without any new surprises.

 

So I guess that the problem is the pump. Today it had tough job pumping the fluid - in the morning it was -11 degrees outside.

[radek-j 0]

As I promised, I've checked the pressure drop in the system. The pump primes every second gearchange. I've also made logs of pressure drop with Alfa Diag, which I'll post later.

 

Cheers

[Smaky 73]

I'm thinking the pump is probable, but 2 gear changes points to either the accumulator or an internal seal leaking

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk! Because I'm on tour!

[radek-j 0]

Life with Selespeed isn't easy - my pump died when I was on the road. I towed Alfa back home, then opened the pump: the rotor winding was burned. I brought the rotor to the guy who fixes electric engines. He rewinded it and I replaced the bushes (the old ones were quite short). After that the pump was going, but it was running to slow. The problem was that I put the carbon bushes in it (those used for drills etc.) and their resistance was too high, lowering the pump power. After fitting copper bushes pump was going like a brand-new one

 

I've put the promised pressure graph (made before pump died) in the attachment.

[Smaky 73]

That is definately a failing accumulator, you can see that it's priming every 3 minutes at rest, like I thought though it's only just going and if you look closer you see that the cut off pressure creeps up as the intervals grow shorter, this too shows it's beginning to stick.

[radek-j 0]

Thanks for your concern Smaky.

 

How long should the good accumulator maintain pressure?

[Smaky 73]

At least 10 minutes.

[radek-j 0]

In order to make sure that the accumulator is faulty I've done some logs of pressure in the system.

 

The accumulator holds pressure so long that I haven't had enough patience to wait for the pump to start. I've made the logs three times.

 

Moreover, I still cannot do the clutch bleed and EOL routines. They end with the same 0xc error.

 

I'm really puzzled here, the accumulator suddenly started to hold the pressure. Maybe it's because of temperature? When I've done previous log it was around -15 outside. I also suspect the undercharged battery - the car isn't frequently used (once over two, three days).

[radek-j 0]

I'm also concerned with the clutch rod length. It changes after the shift - you can see it clearly on the graph. First it's around 28,45mm, after two shifts it changes to 28,3mm, and after three shifts it is 28,25mm. Is it normal?

[Smaky 73]

Well the pressure holding is back to normal as yu say, the rod length fluctuation I would put down to a worn clutch, is this 0xc code coming up after the first clunk of the gearchanges?

 

 

 

Jeez I hate Alfadiag its stupid code system.... why cant you be using Fiatecuscan???

[radek-j 0]

If I start the clutch bleed routine I can hear something moving (I guess it's the clutch actuator). After short while, the pump kicks in (clutch actuator still moving). Then the gearbox control lights up, the beeping starts and the error is thrown.

 

I don't really remember how things are with EOL routine, but I'll check it.

 

When it comes to FiatEcuScan - well, I have only the free version which can't do calibration routines of selespeed ecu.

[Smaky 73]

The EOL is basically a check of the clutch actuation, a check of the pressure holding cicuit, then from gear to gear to "LEARN" what the sensors should read when the gears are engaged, I'm guessing that you are getting this problem about a minute int the routine which may mean it could even be a sensor fork whichhas snapped off, if that is so then it's going to be a nightmare.

[radek-j 0]

Hello again.

In Saturday I've finally managed to complete cluch bleed and EOL calibration routines I've used FiatEcuScan, as suggested by Smaky. When I've tried to do EOL calibration for the first time it complained that "conditions are not suitable" or something like that. So I've warmed the engine a little bit more and finally it compleded without any errors. Thanks Smaky!

 

By the sensor fork you mean the one inside the actuator?

 

Cheers

[Smaky 73]

Yes, there are 2 forks inside the actuator.