It's Been A While, But

[flyblo5 17]

today my selespeed decided to be a pain in the arse.

 

Driving along when it suddenly dropped to Neutral, although the display still says 2. Tried the usual pulling the fuses, disconnected the battery and crossed the terminals to discharge the system but nothing worked.

 

There are no faults according to MES and I have even tried swapping the gearbox ECU with a spare I have but still the same.

 

Selespeed pump seems to be working ok.

 

Any ideas?

[Smaky 73]

I'd suspect a faulty range sensor on the back of the actuator.

[flyblo5 17]

Thanks Alex, Is there an easy way of testing it?

[flyblo5 17]

After much fiddling around and more fun with MES it kind of worked again, briefly but didn't seem happy. I did manage to get a couple of fault codes, P1762 Overdrive band failed off and P1769 AG4 Transmission Torque Modulation Fault. When it failed again (without driving it) it had the same symptoms. At one point one of the two solenoids pictured started to buzz as if it was jammed. It's hard to say for sure which one it was as they are quite close and the vibration could be felt in both. Are these the items you are referring to Alex?

 

[Smaky 73]

Nope, The sensor I'm sure is the issue is identical to the one in the middle of those two solenoids but down the back of the actuator, I'd suspect it's contaminated with oil.

 

But in that pic the LH solenoid is the clutch one and the right hand is the range (left or right on a conventional stick)

[flyblo5 17]

Thanks, I'll check it out tomorrow.

[flyblo5 17]

OK, so I removed the sensor today and it's as clean as a whistle with no signs of contamination. It is however and after market part and not a Magneti Marelli. I do remember having to change one while the engine was out and swapping them around so the new one was at the back as it's harder to get to.

The CTS aftermarket part is around £40.00 while the Marelli is about £140. but if the after market part has failed after 4000 miles I'm inclined to go MM.

Is there a way of testing the unit before lashing out £140 that I haven't really got?

[Smaky 73]

You can use a multimeter on the pins in the socket and spin the center to check the resistance changes,

 

or .... lift it off but leave it plugged in, ignition on then while someone watches the rev counter (gear display) spin the center and see if the gear indication changes,

 

or .... If you have MES, lift it off but leave it plugged in, ignition on then whilst watching the inserted gear on the live data see if it changes.

[flyblo5 17]

Thanks, That's tomorrows job then.

[flyblo5 17]

OK so I removed the sensor and tested by leaving plugged in and rotated the centre and both the dash gear indicator and the gear requested / selected display on mes changed accordingly, and probably more importantly displayed the same gear. To prove the point I removed the other identical sensor and plugged that one in and got the same results. At times though I did notice the signal drop out or freeze for a second or so. Having inspected the gearbox loom there were one or two kinks which could have been breaks in the cable. I repaired these and refitted everything, ran the calibration on MES and briefly was able to select 1,2 and R with the engine off (I believe this to be correct) but could not start as the battery was a bit flat by then. Since then it won't shift out of neutral but won't turn over either.

 

So is the best thing to change the sensor and see what happens or are there any other suggestions?

[Smaky 73]

I'd swap the 2 sensors around and charge the battery.

[flyblo5 17]

Already swapped them round which is why I think i'm getting different problems.

Swapped them back and the origanal problem re-occured.

 

With ignition on but engine not running I can select R,N 1 & 2 and change between them with no problem. As soon as I try and select 3 it has a hissy fit and sticks in 2, although you can hear it trying to change even when you turn the ignition off. Disconnect the battery and reconnect and all is good again. It will also start and with the engine running but car stationary I can select R,N,1 & 2. as soon as you try for 3 (which I know it won't do with the engine running) the same thing happens.

 

This I think proves the point and unless Smaky tells me different I'll be ordering the part as soon as pennies allow.

 

It looks like Smaky was on the money yet again, Thanks Alex.

[Smaky 73]

It sounds like 2 problems, the sensors are old and probably do need replacing due to wear, but with the engine running and stationary, it shouldn't even try for 3rd, deal with the sensors first then if it is still doing this then we'll have to look into ABS/clutch speed mismatch. Have you check the ABS for fault codes???? Sometimes that can help when diagnosing sele faults, especially when there is a brake pedal switch warning.

[flyblo5 17]

No other warning lights or fault codes on mes at all, except for maf that I have unplugged to get the air ducts out of the way for better access.

[Smaky 73]

Just the sensors then.

[flyblo5 17]

Finally managed to get a second sensor and fitted both new parts.

With Ignition on but engine not running it went through the gears both up and down with a little wobble in 4 on the way down.

Tried again and the same thing happened, it would stick between 4 & 3 on the way down the gears but was fine on the way up.

Connected MES but did not show any fault codes. Tried to run the final calibration but it stopped short with a message 3rd-4th sel.error. Tried again with the same result.

 

Answers on a postcard please.

[Smaky 73]

A strip and clean out of the gearbox is the way forward, something inside is jamming it.

[flyblo5 17]

Thanks Alex, I thought as much.

 

It's a long shot but I don't suppose any parts are interchangeable with the manual box as I have one kicking about?

 

It will have to wait for a bit anyway as there isn't a painkiller on the planet that will let me do anything like that at the moment.

[Smaky 73]

Oddly enough almost every part is interchangeable, really only the bell housing, center case, clutch speed sensor, input selector rod and input shaft seal are unique to the sele box, the rest just depends on the year of box and the engine it was strapped to, but on the input shaft there is a stamp, as long as that stamp matches then the gearing was the same, also the 5th gear has a ratio stamp, that may also differ, but if I was to replace the 5th, I'd use the gears from a JTS (better economy)

[flyblo5 17]

Thanks Alex.

The box is from a 2004 147 2.0 TS so hopefully any broken bits will be the same.

[Smaky 73]

Make doubley sure you have the correct ratios, I think you may be using more of the original bits than you hoped... or just swap all the internals over from the spare box. Always do the clutch setup and calibration before starting the engine as well, this will allow the clutch to center perfectly before you start up.

 

Also note that if the front bearing of the gearbox you are removing has gone them the casing around the bearing has also worn away, this can be terminal as if you just replace the bearing then it will do the same thing again.

[flyblo5 17]

Thanks

[flyblo5 17]

O.K. So the gearbox is out and the end cover removed and after looking at the lock nuts I think someone has been here before.

 

 

 

[flyblo5 17]

Has anyone got an exploded diagram or pictures of the Gearbox internals before I get really involved.

[Smaky 73]

http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi?COUNTRY=012&GRP_COD=212&SBMK=R&DRIVE=D&MAKE=R&COMM_MODEL=156&CAT_COD=X1&MOD_COD=116&SGRP_COD=15&ALL_FIG=0&LANGUAGE=3&NEW_HTTP=TRUE&PREVIOUS_KEY=SUBGROUP&ALL_LIST_PART=0&SB_CODE=-1&KEY=SUBGROUP_7&PRINT_MODE=0&EPER_CAT=SP&WINDOW_ID=1&GUI_LANG=3