Swede 147 Sele Stuck In N

[Ola W 0]

Hi and hello from Sweden. I'm puzzled about my daugthers 147 Selespeed. Bougth it a couple of weeks ago and then it didn´t even start. From there I have manage to get it to start and also driven it shortly, with all gears in action. Now it is stuck in N, still the engine starts though. I think it has been filled with the wrong Sele-oil, red coulered I guess is Dextron, or at least not CS Speed. I have now drained and refilled it with CS and levelled. Pump is working, clutch rod is adjusted, no fault codes and all solenoids sounds and seem to be working when activated with FES. The 20-pin connector have been disconnected and connected 50 times or more. Also been over the relay. Battery seems ok. Calibration returnes "1st and 2nd sel. error". Readings from FES as per below engine off and on:

Could anyone (Smaky I guess ) spot anything wrong. What would be likely to check next? Disconnect/connect stick and check micro-switches? Brake sensor, brake light is working... Any specific wiring/solenoids/connectors/relay/fuse. Any help will be much appriciated here in Sweden!

Edited August 30, 2013 by Ola W

[Ola W 0]

Engine off

Engine on

Time

sec

0

0

Number of rewrites

 

0

0

Gear/engage position

mm

24,7

24,814

Selection position

mm

16,94

16,94

Clutch pressure plate travel

mm

28,266

11,508

Clutch pressure plate reference

mm

0

11,55

Accelerator pedal position

%

0

0

Hydraulic circuit pressure

bar

44,038

50,962

Coolant temperature

°C

45

41

Battery voltage

V

12,5045

14,05

Engine speed

rpm

0

1128

Clutch RPM

rpm

0

0

Vehicle speed

km/h

0

0

Odd number gears current

mA

0

0

Even number gears current

mA

0

0

Clutch solenoid valve current

mA

0

912,6

Actual torque

Nm

158

-2

Calculated engine torque

Nm

158

0

A/T selector lever position

 

No request

Forwards

Gear engaged

 

N

N

Desired gear

 

N

2

Automatic transmission

 

OFF

OFF

Driver's door

 

Closed

Closed

Brake pedal position

 

Released

Pressed

Ignition key ON/OFF

 

ON

ON

Pump relay control

 

OFF

OFF

Engine startup

 

Allowed

Allowed

TAG

[Smaky 73]

Hi,

 

All those readings appear to be correct, so first thing I would do isdisconnect the -ve battery wire and short it to the positive for a few seconds, reconnect it to the -ve terminal and see if the car then works.

 

Look underneath the car to see if there is A LOT OF oil dripping from the gearbox/engine join as this would signify a new clutch and gearbox is required due to front bearing failure, that's the worst case.

 

If that is OK then you can remove the 3 sensors, using a srewdriver twist them through their full range and refit them, check the clutch travel length 28 - 28.5mm, then tun the calibration

[Ola W 0]

Thanks Smaky!

Will test this tomorrow and get back with any results and/or progress.

[Smaky 73]

This for setting the clutch length.. in red, 28 - 28.5mm is acceptable.

 

 

This for calibrating the actuator...

 

Edited August 31, 2013 by Smaky

[Ola W 0]

Have been doing some practical work on her today.

As suggested I disconnected the battery and short- circuited for 10 sec or so. (I have tried this procedure earlier to). Sadly no improvement though.

I then got the whole Sele electrical wiring out of the car. Rang out the whole wiring with a multi-meter, all connectors seemed to be ok and “in contact†with the 20-pin connector. Then I went off to check the pf2c-sensors. The two on top was easy to loose and connected them on the bench to a 5V feed, turned them round with screwdriver and measured a signal out on pin C, so they should be ok. The third one, on the backside, of course had a worn torx screw. No luck with getting that one out then. Managed to hook it up to a 5V feed and, with some struggle, measure the signal on pin C to 0V. Don´t know if it should be activated or not, should it???

Checked all EV:s for short circuit – all seemed ok. Refitted it all back and checked for any improvements. Had fault codes P1745 and P1746, Lever switch 0 and 1, Invalid signal, Stored.

No problem to clear these out, otherwise no change.

Parameters for engine off and on in post below.

Clutch drain before calibration ok, then tried a calibration which aborted same as before, “1^st and 2^nd sel.errorâ€.

Engine starts, but won´t get out of N. Not able to shift gears in MAR either.

What next Smaky?

[Ola W 0]

Engine off Engine on

Gear/engage position mm 24,852 24,89

Selection position mm 16,94 16,975

Clutch pressure plate travel mm 28,35 11,676

Clutch pressure plate reference mm 0 11,76

Hydraulic circuit pressure bar 49,519 47,019

Coolant temperature °C 27 46

Battery voltage V 12,5326 14,1343

Engine speed rpm 0 1096

Clutch RPM rpm 0 0

Vehicle speed km/h 0 0

Odd number gears current mA 0 0

Even number gears current mA 0 0

Clutch solenoid valve current mA 0 920,4

Actual torque Nm 149 -3

Calculated engine torque Nm 149 -2

A/T selector lever position No request No request

Gear engaged N N

Desired gear N N

Automatic transmission OFF OFF

Driver's door Open Open

Brake pedal position Released Released

Ignition key ON/OFF ON ON

Pump relay control OFF OFF

Engine startup Allowed Allowed

[Ola W 0]

And about leaking oil…

Can´t answer for how it was before we bought it a couple of weeks ago. Is not that oily and dirty underneath. And when we took it home it didn´t even start. Since then it starts and I have also driven it once for about 8-10 km or so, in all gears. Didn´t change gears super-smooth but no big problems. No big pool of oil under it and it has been parked in the same place and on hard ground so if that had happened I should have noticed.

[Ola W 0]

Ok, an update from todays tinkering with the Sele... Did some search on other threads and followed some of the suggested actions.

-Brake sensor, function seems ok. Brake light turns on and I get pressed/depressed readings from MES.

-Clutch speed sensor, removed and it looked all ok, no damages or grease. Also measured it to just below 1200 ohms.

-Next thing, popped the end case of the gearbox. Not so much oil… But pieces of what seem to be the remains of a needle bearing .

 

So from here I am guessing that the only way to go is to change the gearbox.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Ola W

[Ola W 0]

Would of course be great if anyone could give a clue to what bearing this is. If it is a chance to do some repair. The gearwheels in the end case didn´t looked damaged. Suppose that remains of the bearing could have spread to the rest of the gearbox anyway. Smaky? (Tried up-loading a pic via Skydrive without success).

Edited September 8, 2013 by Ola W

[K9d 108]

I've tried to upload via Skydrive but it doesn't seem to work.

If you have a photobucket account you can link to them, right click on the picture, Copy the URL, then use the picture icon and Paste the URL into the box that opens.

[Smaky 73]

Would of course be great if anyone could give a clue to what bearing this is. If it is a chance to do some repair. The gearwheels in the end case didn´t looked damaged. Suppose that remains of the bearing could have spread to the rest of the gearbox anyway. Smaky? (Tried up-loading a pic via Skydrive without success).

 

Your in luck, I have a car right now with what sounds like exactly the same problem, and this is going to be getting a change of gearbox as when the end case was removed there was a chewed up bearing from the 1/2 synchro, this also meant that 1/2 could not be selected manualy either.

[Ola W 0]

Ok, update from Sweden. Got a second hand gearbox from the junkyard from a -00 156.

After more or less ten hours the old gearbox is now out of the 147. Manage to get it out without removing the sub-frame, but don’t know if I would recommend it to others…

Smaky! -Before I put the new old gearbox in the car is there any known method to check if the gearbox can shift into gears, with the actuator removed that is?

[Smaky 73]

Yep, put a bolt into the selector and you can mNUlly select the gears by pushing down and twisting at various heights, I'm going to do a box strip guide soon so you can all see how these things work.

[Ola W 0]

Thanx Guru-Smaky! Fabulous, looking forward to this. I expected somthing in that direction (pushing down and twisting) and on the "new" gearbox this seem to be manageble. I don't have the grip of the method to test it though. On the old gbox on the other hand the selector seem to be stuck! I don't want to stress you in any way, but the weather forecast for the upcomming weekend is good and I am doing the work outside. The autumn in mid-Sweden is otherwise now closer to winter than summer... Thanks again!

[Ola W 0]

Managed to engage six gears on the new gbox today.

Lever pressed down to distance from top of lever to machined surface where actuator is attached.

Distance approx. 39 mm

Turned left – Gear ?

Turned right – Gear Reverse

Distance approx. 30 mm

Turned left – Gear ?

Turned right – Gear ?

Distance approx.23 mm

Turned left – Gear ?

Turned right – Gear ?

Left and right seen from back of gearbox.

[Smaky 73]

5th

rev

3rd

4th

1st

2nd ....in the order you listed them.

 

All sounds good there.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Smaky

[Ola W 0]

Cheers Smaky! Got it all together on wednesday evening since the weather was good, still now snow. And happy happy now the car runs! Doesn´t shift that smooth between 2:nd and 3:rd but since the clutch is new I will do a re-cal this weekend. Had it set to 28,1 but noticed that it now was down below 28. My old actuator wich I mounted back first didn't work. Don't know if it was broken before or if I messed up fitting it back. Position of the plunge to fit on to the gearlever on gbox seems of since I can't get the signal sensors for gear engagement (high) and selection (low) to work (P1741 & P1742). Loosend them and noticed that they didn't "twist in" right when mounting them back. Will dismantle it and learn more about it and hopefully get it right. Thankfully I got another when I bought the second hand gbox and it worked. Thanks for all the help and input on this work!