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flyblo5

Electrical Gremlins

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OK, so where to start.

 

Spent the last 18 months or so pretty much rebuilding my 2001 sele S/W and before you start, yes it's far too long but due to having very little free time and even less free cash thats how long it's taken. But now she's more or less finished having had an engine rebuild, new clutch (gearbox is an alfa remanufactured unit about a year before) front and rear suspension and more other new bits than you can shake a stick at, the gremlins have arrived.

 

1. central locking not working with the remote or manualy with the key. All was fine until a couple of weeks ago but nothing now. Alarm still arms and indicators flash and tone sounds, but then a couple of seconds later you get the tone again this time with no flash. Alarm works as normal. And just for good measure the N/S rear door has decided not to open anymore but i don't think it's realated as it's only just happened.

 

2. Electric Windows. again all was fine until a couple of weeks ago but now only the O/S/rear will operate, both from the drivers door switch(with or without the lock button pressed) and the rear door switch. It's VERY slow but does work.The others do not work from either the drivers door swith or the indivdual swithes in the relevent door.

 

3.ABS. Light is on but didn't have the laptop so don't have a fault code. With the Ignition off the pedal will pump up reasonably hard, turn the ignition on and it will soften, start the car and the pedal goes straight to the floor. The fluid has been changed, all 4 calipers rebuilt and 4 new ABS sensors as well as a couple of pipes. System has been bled and everything set up with FES/MES. There is no fluid loss anywhere and when the pump is tested with MES there is no sound, so i'm thinking Relay/fuse/Wiring but can't see a problem with any.

 

4. Radiator fan not cutting in but i think that's just the resistor 'cos if i unplug the temp sensor it comes on perminatly.

 

5.Horrible sqeaking noise from the gearbox/flywheel which i'm pretty certain is the (new)clutch Thrust bearing. well i say new, it's was sitting waiting to be fitted for about a year so i think it's just dried out a bit. Hoping it will sort itself out as i could do with not dropping the gearbox again.

 

Other than that she's perfect.

 

Any comments or ideas are very welcome, even if it's only to confirm my suspisions.

 

thanks

 

I have lots of pictures to post when she's done. :Big Grin:

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Low battery voltage ?

 

The rear window can be operated from the front even with the lock ON, its designed to stop the rear switches working.

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1. central locking not working with the remote or manualy with the key. All was fine until a couple of weeks ago but nothing now. Alarm still arms and indicators flash and tone sounds, but then a couple of seconds later you get the tone again this time with no flash. Alarm works as normal. And just for good measure the N/S rear door has decided not to open anymore but i don't think it's realated as it's only just happened.

 

If the central locking is not locking the doors then the alarm will beep again to tell you it's unlocked, that is normal, the problem is that the doors sre not locking in the first place.

 

This could be from a dodgy drivers door connector, faulty door motor, a fuse, or the body box above the glove box.

 

2. Electric Windows. again all was fine until a couple of weeks ago but now only the O/S/rear will operate, both from the drivers door switch(with or without the lock button pressed) and the rear door switch. It's VERY slow but does work.The others do not work from either the drivers door swith or the indivdual swithes in the relevent door.

 

As Craig states the door switch still operates the windows whether LOCK is on or off, it's a childproofing thing.

 

Again it could be the drivers door connector, a fuse, the relays above the glove box, the motors are siezed or switches are disconnected.

 

3.ABS. Light is on but didn't have the laptop so don't have a fault code. With the Ignition off the pedal will pump up reasonably hard, turn the ignition on and it will soften, start the car and the pedal goes straight to the floor. The fluid has been changed, all 4 calipers rebuilt and 4 new ABS sensors as well as a couple of pipes. System has been bled and everything set up with FES/MES. There is no fluid loss anywhere and when the pump is tested with MES there is no sound, so i'm thinking Relay/fuse/Wiring but can't see a problem with any.

 

Have you checked the brake fluid level, I'm guessing it will be OK as you say the brakes go firm when the engine is not running and as they soften when you start the engine that all sounds normal, if you've had the engine out then you'll have disconnected the vacumm hose from the manifold, check that is sound and the secured to the master cylinder, then double check the bleeding is pushing out deairiated fluid, run the drain and bleed functions for the ABS pump on FES/MES, if that fails take it out on a long, lonely and SAFE road, build up a little speed 20mph ish and then stand on the brakes, it will either grind to an emergency stop with the ABS working to stop the skid / skid to a stop and illuminate the ABS light and then you'll be able to get a code / make the pedal pump under your feet, lock on the ABS light and give poor braking performance, which is normally a dented mag ring on a wheel bearing or dodgy sensor. But be safe when testing, garages have a rolling road for this very purpose.

 

4. Radiator fan not cutting in but i think that's just the resistor 'cos if i unplug the temp sensor it comes on perminatly.

 

Is the engine getting up to temperature? 93 - 96'C to get the low fan on, if that is not cutting in then it is most likely the resistor in the cowling or the relay.

 

5.Horrible sqeaking noise from the gearbox/flywheel which i'm pretty certain is the (new)clutch Thrust bearing. well i say new, it's was sitting waiting to be fitted for about a year so i think it's just dried out a bit. Hoping it will sort itself out as i could do with not dropping the gearbox again.

 

Did you not check it span before you fitted it? Is the friction plate the right way round? Is it the correct clutch kit? I've received a few with the wrong spring plate in from a certain supplier, it appears there is a whole batch like it and the plate just eats the release bearing then pops the spring off that retains the bearing to the carrier section and squeals like hell.

 

Anyway if the clutch rod is not set right then you may be exerting too much force on it and that is causing the squeak as when in N the clutch is held off. If you've not selected a few gears before starting for the first time or run the calibration then it may be off center and this can damage the gearbox, then there's the did you fit the release bearing the right way up? there is a tab to prevent this but a certain Bedfordshire based and a Berkshire based garage have managed it in the past, took 2 minutes from arrival to diagnose with a boroscope. I think though the box is coming off again.

Edited by Smaky

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Thanks guys.

 

Looks like a bit more investigating in the electrical side.

reading through Smakys words of wisdom i'll start with the drivers door as it could be the cause of both the central locking and the window problem can be caused by this. Don't think it's the motors as everything failed at the same time.

 

Hopefully the ABS will just be the Vac hose, but at least i have a few more ideas to go on, so a bit more prodding to be done.

 

Rad fan is no real problem.

 

Again reading Smaky's reply i think the box will have to come off for peace of mind if nothing else. Don't want to do all this work for it to fail on me within a couple of weeks.

 

Clutch was purchased from shop4parts. had a fair amount of stuff from them and never had a problem.

 

Thanks again for the advice. I'll let you know what happens but i won't be able to do anything until sunday.

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Bit of an update.

 

After spending what little free time i have outside in the pissing rain, with what feels like someone hammering in my head while simultainiosly shoving razor blades down my throat and placing a hosepipe where my nose used to be, i have made a little progress.

 

Electric windows was indeed down to a wirinng problem in the drivers door connector shorting out a constantly blowing fuses. took ages to find and about 5 minutes to fix.

 

Central locking was down to a sticky relay. Would work a couple of times then stop. Changes relay and now works every time.

 

The rear door that wouldn't open now does but now it won't stay shut. I'm sure this car hates me.

 

So next sunday will be sorting the door and playing with the abs.

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Update.

 

Rear door now opens and shuts when it's supposed to.

 

Think i've found the ABS fault but can't be sure until next weel when i take the lapto over.

 

Even the CD player workd now!

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Another Sunday another day of frustration.

 

Radiator fan now works perfectly, a small step forward.

 

CD player has stopped working again, a small step back.

 

ABS still not sorted.

My feeling now is that it is the ABS pump, or rather the circuit board and electric bits attached to it.

Took the pump off and put 12 directly across the power lead and it kicked in perfectly. There is power to certain pins on the multiplug connector but when you run the tests on MES the pump does not kick in, so my conclusion is the gubbings between the multiplug and motor but just to check i've posted a photo of the plug with the voltage for each pin, with the ignition on.

Can any techies out there tell me if all is as it should be? (can't think who i'm aiming that at ).

 

Answers on a postcard please.

 

ABSPumpMultiplug_zps3be89f28.jpg

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OK so that didn't work as well as i'd hoped 'cos you can't see the voltages.

 

listed top to bottom the are,

 

Left hand coloum as you look at it

 

not used, 2.6V, 2.45V,Not used, not used,0.7V, 0V,12.19V, 12.19V, 0V

 

Middle,

 

Not used,not used, not used,not used, 0V, 0.07V,0.07V

 

Right,

 

12.11V,0.02V,Not used,not used,11.65V, Not used, 0V,0v,0V,0V,0V,0V, Not used,0V,0V.

 

Hope this makes sense.

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Well that all seems OK, and even after comparing it to the figures from my 2001 sele SW they are about the same, but I did do something on mine to test a theory and it created the issue your having.

 

So, remove the brake pedal switch, pull the plunger out to the end of the ratchet, whilst pushing down on the pedal refit the switch, drive the car forwards to get over 10mph and then the ABS warning should extinguish, clear the codes and that should be it.

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Just a couple of quick questions Smaky,

 

1. Should the above fix restore brake pressure to the pedal. I have bled the system to death and run all functions on MES but obviously with a non functioning ABS pump the results are limited.

 

2. Instead of driving the car can i run it on axle stands or does it need some resistance. I only ask as it's next to a busy raod with the A1 at one end and a roundabout at the other, has no brakes (except hand brake) and at the moment has no MOT, Tax or insurance.

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If the front wheels are spinning and the rears are not then the ABS is never going to work and if all your tests have been done in this manner then it's no wonder it's doing this.

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Good point.

 

I'll be taking my life in my hands at the weekend then. :Praying:

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Well not really, if the front wheels are spinning and the rears are not, the system thinks the rears have locked and releases them, this will allow the pedal to go soft as the valves stay open to tryand equalise the braking. On the road this shouldn't happen, but start off gently.

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So,

 

bled the system again and there is definatly no air anyware.

 

Did Smaky's breake switch thingy and went for a nice careful and slow drive, only took her up to about 15-20mph because of the lack of brakes.

 

ABS light stays off and there are no fault codes generated but still no pedal pressure.

Like before it pumps up a bit (but still not as it should be) when static but as soon as you start the engine the pedal goes straight to the floor, so i'm now thinking it must be servo related.

There is no fluid loss and no visable leaks.

 

But i now have a much bigger problem!

 

See the Twat of the day thread.

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Yup, definately sounds like the brake master has gone, not the end of the world but definately not the nicest of jobs.

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Not a nice job? that will make a change.

 

The only thing that smells worse than Brake fluid is gearbox oil, and now i have to deal with both.

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Update.

 

Haven't been able to get over to work on her for a few weeks so my finish deadline of SAD 2013 has well and truly bitten the dust.

 

Didn't have long this Sunday but i removed the Master cylinder and vacuum pipe. Master Cylinder looks fine, but then again they usually do don't they. No signs of leaking but that doesn't exclude the possibility if the fluid getting by the internal seals, but as it pumps up hard when the engine is switched off i'm thinking more servo related.

 

Vac hose has a few marks on it but does not appear to leak when pressure tested. (thumb over one end, submerge in water and blow hard) but for what they cost i'll probably replace it anyway.

 

So it would seem to be servo, although when i seperated the master cylinder from the servo there eas a woosh of air as the vacuum was released, so its holding something.

 

So do i change the master cylinder and hose, refit both (a bit messy but no a difficault job) and try again? or do i bite the bullet and remove the servo to check/ repair/ replace as well? Removing the servo doesn't look like that challenging, more of a pain in the arse than techincal.

 

Are there any common problems with servo's on these and are they repairable?

 

I'm half tempted to change the lot and be done with it once and for all but it's getting to the point that even I am having problems justifying it to myself and i still have to sort the sqeaky clutch and replace all 4 coil springs again (changed them for Eibach's and now it looks like a tossers car, see twat of the day thread) so they have to go.

 

Any (constructive) thoughts welcome.

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OK, I'd rebuild the whole thing as it was, not replacing a thing, give it another bleed (which it'll need anyway), see what it's like then if there is still an issue drop me a PM.

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Cheers Smaky,

 

It will be a couple of weeks at least before i get back over but i'll stick it back together and see what happens.

 

Going to stick with it though as apart from a 156 GTA Selespeed sportwagon (less common than rocking horse poo) i don't really want anything else.

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Finally all problems and glitches sorted so decided to do a throttle reset before going off to the MOT station.

 

So i'm sitting there listening to the engine ticking over, as i have done for the last few weeks and it sounds about as perfect as it's possible to sound, Smooth and quiet, revs freely and easily then returns to a perfect purr. On my limited trips up and down the road everything is as i remembered it, if not better.

 

Then i hear a vey quiet, very slight ticking noise. "That's odd" i think to myself "don't remember hearing that befor......." At that point the very slight, very quiet ticking turns in to a noise i can only describe as sounding like half a dozen marbles shaken violently in a coke can broadcast over a very loud poor quality tanoy.

 

I am now VERY VERY pissed off.

 

Not had chance to do much investigation but sounds major, if not terminal.

 

I've taken the cam cover off and can't see anything obvious yet. My guess is either something left behind internaly after the rebuild,

something internally failing or possibly timing belt jumped a tooth or two.

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:( hope its nothing serious & not as bad as it sounds. Could it be something worked its way loose (heatshield maybe?)

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