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peter2

pump relay?

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Hi all,

it's been a couple of days that my selespeed would refuse to do anything from now and then, and keep going with the gear it was in (no materr which it was). this happens more often after a cold start.

i hooked FES and monitored the pressure. i noticed that it happens when the pressure is lower than a certain amount and the pump doesn't prime, even if the relay signal is on. if i move the relay and the multipin connector beneath it, the pump starts.

i found the error "P1769 Pump relay stuck". i took the relay off, cleaned the contacts, but seems it's doing it again. i read that this relay is the same as the one used for the high speed fan operation. where is the latter located? can i try swapping them?

 

can i be reasonably sure it's a problem restricted to the pump relay?

 

thanks a lot.

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If it's a 147 then you can't, but if it's a 156 then they are both in front of the battery and can be swapped, but be sure not to confuse this issue with a worn out pump, which as the cars age is a more likely issue,this shows by failing to prime when you first open the door and as your experiencing refusing to change gear until you jolt the car, if the pump is only running for a split second and the pressure shoots up above 55Bar and drops below 44 constantly then you'll need an accumulator too.

 

My personal thoughts on our issue are that you require a pump.

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first of all MERRY Christmas! :omnom::omnom:

 

then: i opened the thing below the steering wheel, and found a relay identical to the one between the battery and the engine (the latter is the sele pump relay, isn't it?); swapped them, went for a ride, and everything related to the gears seems fine!!

 

i thought: it must have been that!! the proof to support my happiness is that windows don't go down anymore, so the relay i used is very likely to be window-related!

 

what do you think smacky? (by the way, i didn't say i jolted the car, i said i jolted the relay and the connector beneath it.)

 

PS now it's time to fill up our stomachs!! :yay::yay:

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You may have solved it then, if you need another relay and your down south just get to one of the meetings and I'll have one for you.

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You may have solved it then, if you need another relay and your down south just get to one of the meetings and I'll have one for you.

 

:poke: smaky i'm italian! i'm the author of the "stuck in fifth" topic...or maybe you were kidding.. :Confused:

 

anyway, today 200 kms (though mainly highway, so not many gear changes) and not even one missed gear change. and this is really helping me stopping smoking as i can't open windows... :bluecry:

 

smaky, i should consider myself lucky, as this time i witnessed a wrong diagnosis of yours!!! this is very rare!!! joking, of course...thanks a lot!

 

PS as you really scared me, i'm going to change the brushes in my pump as soon as i can afford a 2-3 days car stop.

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You may have solved it then, if you need another relay and your down south just get to one of the meetings and I'll have one for you.

 

:poke: smaky i'm italian! i'm the author of the "stuck in fifth" topic...or maybe you were kidding.. :Confused:

 

anyway, today 200 kms (though mainly highway, so not many gear changes) and not even one missed gear change. and this is really helping me stopping smoking as i can't open windows... :bluecry:

 

smaky, i should consider myself lucky, as this time i witnessed a wrong diagnosis of yours!!! this is very rare!!! joking, of course...thanks a lot!

 

PS as you really scared me, i'm going to change the brushes in my pump as soon as i can afford a 2-3 days car stop.

 

It shouldn't take more than 2-3 hours to replace the brushes and not misdiagnosed, just pre-empting.

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problem fixed!

it was the relay: i bought a new one from local dealer (15 euros). given it's not the same brand as the original one, i preferred to use it for the windows, and stick it under the steering wheel.

 

I opened the fault one, and found out that it's malfunctioning is very likely to be caused by a dirty contact: i cleaned it and saved it for the next relay fault, as there are several in the car that are prone to die.

 

i strongly reccomend to try cleaning it before buying a new one.

 

thanks all.

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Hi all,

 

My 2001 147 broke down today and it appears to be the selespeed pump as it will not prime when drivers door is opened. Left alone for a while and it seems to spring back into life but then dies again after a short drive.

 

So having read through various posts on the issue I understand it could be one of 3 things:

1. Pump Relay

2. Accumulator

3. Pump itself

 

Question is: Where is the selespeed pump relay located and what is it's rating? Can't find anything in owners manual, just info on a 30A fuse. Also, where are the accumulator and pump located?

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smaky can i answer? :omnom:

ok thanks!

 

the relay is fixed to the same support the main connector of the sele actuator is fixed: it's between the battery and the engine.

 

as i wrote above, you can try to flip it with the the one located below the steering wheel (if your windows don't work anymore but your sele does it is the murderer)

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smaky can i answer? :omnom:

ok thanks!

 

the relay is fixed to the same support the main connector of the sele actuator is fixed: it's between the battery and the engine.

 

as i wrote above, you can try to flip it with the the one located below the steering wheel (if your windows don't work anymore but your sele does it is the murderer)

 

OR,

 

check you have enough fluid in the reservoir then get 2 lengths of wire, remove the selespeed reservoir cover panel to reveal the pump plug, disconnect that, connect the red pin to the +ve of the batery and the black to the -ve side for a second to see if the pump runs.

 

If it does then it's probably the relay, accumulator or clutch, if not then it'll be the pump motor.

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Thanks for your input guys,

 

Well as luck would have it since getting the car back home I an unable to re-produce the fault. So a bit stuck because I can't fix it, and can't driver it either!

 

Tried driving it for a short distance around the block to warm it up as it was really hot yesterday but still no problem. Then I must have change between neutral, 1st, 2nd and reverse whilst stationary in the car park about 50 times and it works fine. I can hear the pump kick in every 3rd or 4th gear change.

 

Being an intermittent problem I'm beginning to wonder it it's more likely to be the pump than the relay but need the darn thing to stop working again to find out. Will try driving it round the block a few times tomorrow when it's quiet to see if I can re-create the fault and report back.

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So after driving around for a bit today managed to re-produce the problem. Swapped relays but no luck with that either. Then tried connecting pump directly to battery. Bit tricky but once I got a connection it did spin though I probably didn't have it connected long enough as engine still did not start up.

 

Going to hook up a couple of crimp connectors to the pump connector tomorrow so I can get a good connection to the battery to be sure about that. Interestingly when the fault it present the pump does not run *at all*. Given the relay appears to be ok and if I leave it 10 minutes or so it comes back to life I'm thinking perhaps the accumulator is at fault?

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So after driving around for a bit today managed to re-produce the problem. Swapped relays but no luck with that either. Then tried connecting pump directly to battery. Bit tricky but once I got a connection it did spin though I probably didn't have it connected long enough as engine still did not start up.

 

Going to hook up a couple of crimp connectors to the pump connector tomorrow so I can get a good connection to the battery to be sure about that. Interestingly when the fault it present the pump does not run *at all*. Given the relay appears to be ok and if I leave it 10 minutes or so it comes back to life I'm thinking perhaps the accumulator is at fault?

 

Nope, it can't be the accumulator if that's the case, if the pump doesn't run then it's 1 of 4 things normally, Bad earth, blown fuse, dodgy relay or duff pump.

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Re-checked today and established the following under fault conditions:

1. Relay is fine. Took pump relay and placed it in windows socket and they (the windows) worked fine

2. Pumps runs fine when connected directly to battery

3. All selespeed fuses are ok

 

The anomaly is that it always comes back to life about 15 minutes after failing. The other thing I noticed is that the oil pressure is very low and I think it's dropping to zero when the fault occurs. Will check this tomorrow and monitor over half an hour to see what the trend is.

 

Apart from the circuit I guess it could also be the oil pressure sensor as I periodically get error P1769 but I have no way of checking this.

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P1759 is normally present just before a pump dies, it's probably at the stage where it's hanging when warm.

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Turns out there's a small leak in the high pressure pipe to the actuator. I've managed to remove the battery tray but on my 147 there's an extra bolt at the front of the pump mounting that's proving difficult to remove. Connects horizontally rather than vertically with very little room for maneuver.

 

Once it's out I'll replace the high pressure pipe and check for other leaks. One thing I noticed was that the oil collected from the system so far is quite a bit darker than I expected so will replace that too.

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if your on about the 13mm bolt which goes into the braket from the fron then just bend the bit which the pump plug mouts onto out the way.

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Thanks for the advice. That one was ok but the one near the right hand side nearer the wing was the problem. Got the bugger off in the end - just haven't got the right tools. A flex head wrench would've made removing that much easier.

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Finally got round to replacing the high pressure host and replaced the pump also....but still no joy..

 

Only difference now is that if I leave the engine running 1/2 hour it will stop. But whereas previously the pump would not run, now it primes even whilst the fault is present. I'm pretty sure it's not the relay but might change it just in case.

 

Had Fiat ECU scan on it today and it recorded error P1763 (Receive CAN messages) which makes me think there may be an electrical problem perhaps?

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Had Fiat ECU scan on it today and it recorded error P1763 (Receive CAN messages) which makes me think there may be an electrical problem perhaps?

 

Remove the glve box to reveal the body computer, disconnect and reconnect all 3 plugs that go to it.

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No luck there either. Hydraulic pressure is consistent now between 45 and 55 and pump always kicks in but it still stalls after half an hour.

 

MAF is showing 2kg/hr and doesn't change even if I rev it up. Can remember the air intake but it was near 200. Anyone know what the MAF rate should be under idle? 2kg/hr seems very low,

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