Selespeed Problem When Shifting 2Nd And Losing Reverse

[LjuboMK 0]

Hi guys,

 

I have Alfa gt selespeed year 2004, I bought the car with 91k km, now it has 97k km, the problems were not engaging 2nd (skipping 2nd and going into 3rd )gear when pushed hard over 5000rpm and losing reverse.

 

However so far I have changed the accumulator, the hose that goes from the pump to the actuator, new clutch kit, adjusted the clutch rod ( it was 22,5 adjusted to 28.182 ) and calibrate the system.

 

After changing accumulator and clutch the problem stayed, only this time when pushed hard over 5000rpm it didn't skipped 2nd this was happening in lover rpm and after this losing reverse ( this is happening when the gearbox is warm, when cold there isn't any problem )

 

After adjusting the rod gear changes are much smoother especially in reverse, but now I have the problem still, but this time it doesn't skip 2nd and go in to 3rd, it goes in to 2nd with a delay instead 1 click when changing gear it is two clicks, when this happens i know that I do not have reverse, however after losing revers I turn of the engine wait for one minute or some times just restart it and I have reverse, this is not happening all the time only from time to time but can't say it is not constant enuf to irritate me.

 

Everything else it is ok with the actuator, oil is changed, no leaks, pressure from 42bar to 47bar, pump is priming 10 seconds when cold 4 when left for not to long, battery 12v etc... only eror that I get when I check the car and it is constantly there is the buzzer but I do not remember the code I think it is p1745 but I'm not sure I know that my mechanic says that is for the beeping sound when going in to reverse.

 

I have read most of the posts for selespeed and can't find a solution, your help is much appreciated especially from Smaky. ( Thanks to Smaky I adjusted the rod because no one in my country know about this adjustment )

 

Thanks

[LjuboMK 0]

Update of the above issue or additional problem

 

While driving on a open road to a other city before arriving, 5th gear downshift for 4th, the actuator trying to shift to 4th(I hear clinking noise) and drops in to neutral, I stop the car and restart it there are no gears, I wait for few minutes and restart it and there are all gears, but there are problems with the downshifts with the gears and no reverse after the restart and few km driving.

I finished my job and going back home, there are no problems what so ever, as a test I preformed few, three or four hard takeoffs with all gears, changing 1st 2nd 3rd on 6700 rpm, with no problem and the shifts were very quick.

 

And something that i forgot to mention in the earlier post, my mechanic has a FES where clutch self calibration is with 1st gear and driving with 25% throttle for 300 meters no like the other procedure with 2nd gear with full throttle up to 3000rpm, any how after I changed the clutch kit this procedure was not preformed, we have try but without success.

 

My questions are:

 

1.Will this procedure (clutch self calibration) work with 1st gear because from reading other posts most of the people that have done it say that is not working.

 

2.Is it recommended to clean the clutch speed sensor and do the calibration.

 

3.And final what is your opinion for my problem, I really appreciate your help and opinion, I don't want to mess in the system in a wrong direction and make a bigger mess.

 

Thank You a Lot

[LjuboMK 0]

An update, and please any ideas or help,

 

Again on a trip and this time donwshifting from 3rd to 2nd and there is noise but no 2nd gear instead 4th and then 2nd with a selespeed system failure, when I arrived went to the mechanic to check the car and this were the errors:

 

1. p1753-acoustic signal

2. p1818- gearchange control

3. p1744-hydraulic circuit pressure sensor- for this was the signal on the dash

 

How ever I also checked how the pressure goes it was from 40-50 bar, when in neutral the pump primes after 5-10 minutes.

 

However in the next few days the problems were much often not going into gear on up shift downshift going into neutral etc.

 

Today I have cleaned the connector of the hydraulic pressure sensor, I have not drive a lot, also it was not for cleaning like a soo... but it seams that the problem is there. I was shifting gears with the engine off there is some delays in engaging, but it does engage every gear...

 

I would appreciate your ides as I like the car and I want to keep it, when is working good the selespeed system is nice and I like it....

 

Thanks

[Smaky 73]

I think going from the description, your front bearing has failed in the gearbox, this will require a full gearbox rebuild or replacement and a new clutch.

[LjuboMK 0]

Dear Smaky,

 

First of all thank you for the reply!

 

The past few days the car is working ok, as for the clutch kit it was changed 2000km ago with original kit, how ever I was driving the car with a hole in the high pressure hose that is going from the pump to the actuator do to the pump was priming more than it should other symptoms are:

-when in neutral the pump primes from 41bar to 47 bar and holds the pressure for 10 min, it primes to 50 bar when doing gearchanges with the engine off,

-when I open the door the pump starts but the volume of the sound is fading, on the start is higher and fades to the end,

From what I have read the pump needs to be changed when you change the clutch, my point is if the pump is on the end of the life can be this caused to fail with priming from time to time?

 

How ever on Monday I have appointed with my mechanic and we will check every thing with examiner FES and I will post the details of the outcome.

 

Thank You/Regards

[LjuboMK 0]

If the problem is like you describe in order to be sure 100% should I look for oil liking in the gearbox?

 

Thank You

[LjuboMK 0]

Clarification when I say "noise from the gearbox"(in upper posts) I was referring to the actuator working trying to put it in gear (clinking), how ever I didn't had any noise coming from the gearbox I'm referring to the actuator.

 

Sorry!

[Smaky 73]

OK, firstly then forget what I WROTE ABOVE.

 

The hole in the pipe will not be helping anything and the pipe should be replaced.

 

The low sele fluid level caused by the the pipe will be a cause for failing selections too.

 

 

Also if the clutch has been replaced there is NO NEED TO REPLACE THE PUMP, ACTUATOR OR ECU. That is complete bollox spread by untrained money grabbing dealers and indies. All that needs to be done following a clutch change is set the clutch rod to 28mm and run an EOL calibration, check the rod is still at 28mm and readjust if it's moved, after 500Km of use check again as the clutch will bed in.

 

I suspect your clutch has not been set up correctly after the change, so that is where you should start.

[LjuboMK 0]

Thank again Smaky, I really appreciate,

 

The hose was changed after the clutch( for how long it has been there I don know, I know that I have drove the car with hole in the pipe for 5k km)

 

The level of fluid is correct, changed ( Tutela CS speed ) also the accumulator was changed with new one.

 

The clutch rod was adjusted ( Thanks to You ) on 28,182 mm and final calibration, after driving 800km the rod is same 28,182 mm, there is no change at all, which it surprised me in a positive way.( this adjustment makes BIG difference )

 

Clutch self adjusting was done but I'm not sure that was successfull, in the FES that my mechanic has is a procedure with 1st gear, 25% throttle, 300 meters, not the procedure that is with 2nd gear up to 3000 rpm...

 

How ever today city driving every thing ok until parking, I needed to do few maneuvers with 1st and reverse, the third time with reverse the car was stuck in reverse for 5 seconds( I was trying to sift in first with no success ) after that I moved the gear lever in neutral and it went in neutral but was not engaging gears, after this I was shutting the engine down and I heard the pump prime but with delay, when I heard the pump I restarted the car instantly and there were gears . On my way back everything was ok no problems.

 

Again the car was left for 48 hours, pump prime time ok, but the sound of the pump fading...

 

I'm suspecting on the pump or the pressure sensor ( something connected with the pressure in the system ) or clutch adjustment which I do not know what is the right procedure, I suspect that this was never done from the previous owner....

 

My Regards

[Smaky 73]

I'm suspecting the pump or the relay, or at least the relay isn't sat in it's holder correctly (in front of the battery), if the pump is slowing then either the battery is dieing or the pump itself is worn out, but first check the relay as that would prevent the pump running and that would prevent the gear changes.

[LjuboMK 0]

Un update,

 

Smaky you were right THANKS.Today I went to my mechanic ready to do the pump..... after checking for error codes it come out p1818 gearchange control, after thinking for a while he told me that he didn't do the EOL calibration AFTER ADJUSTMENT of the rod to 28,182 mm, after that he run EOL calibration or (Production/Final calibration) and we went on a test drive to monitor the pressure, the pressure was going from 37 bar min. to 50 bar max. during gearchange and there were no problems what so ever, every think ok with the pump...I didn't drove a lot somethink like 50 km today but with out any problem, no going in neutral, no stuck in gear... 500 km and again check if everythink is ok.

 

The clutch was not ADJUSTED like it should, how ever I will monitor the situation and make and update.

 

Thanks and Regards

[LjuboMK 0]

Today again the same problem after EOL calibration and two days good driving with out problems, not engaging 2nd skipping to 3rd, or engaging 2nd with delay and few attempts from the actuator and after this issue engaging reverse but the car is not moving ( I can here the actuator engaging and the display says R but the car is not moving) .....

My mechanic who has worked in Alfa service is confused and by his opinion some of the PF2C sensors makes a problem, I already ordered 3 of them.

 

Also I'm confused and my question is, if I'm on the right track? Can these be caused from the from the sensor, how ever the problem gets more frequent.....

 

Thanks/Regards

[Smaky 73]

After reading your last post and with the symptoms changing slightly now that it's setup correctly, I think this could be the sensor on the rear of the actuator (range sensor), personally I'd swap this around with the clutch position sensor (they are the same) and see if it works then, if so then you've isolated the faulty sensor and it's easier to replace if you'd want to, but chances are you wouldn't have to.

[LjuboMK 0]

Hi Smaky,

 

I already ordered three of the sensors and I'm planing to change them all of them for safety reasons.

 

How ever until I receive the sensors I drive the car, beside the problem I described above today some thing new happened and maybe this is directly connected to the clutch rod sensor, the car engages all gears but when it change gear it is like the clutch pedal is still pressed (like on a manual ), when you are at a stand still it changes gears like the clutch is not pressed enuf, and the car goes with out pressing the throttle paddle with 1st and reverse until I press the brake paddle.

Can this be caused from the sensors? or is some thing else....

 

-Clutch kit changed 3000 km ago

-accumulator changed

-No liking

-Pump working good

 

 

Thanks/Regards

[Smaky 73]

I think to elimate gearbox problems you need to remove the clutch speed sensor and check the tip of it for damage, also remove the end plate from the gearbox and clean out any debris, this normally blocks 5th/rev gear selections so is worth doing with the symptoms you have, don't forget to top up the gearbox oil afterwards.

[LjuboMK 0]

Dear Smaky,

 

I have tried to find some mechanic who is willing to open the back casing on the gearbox and check the clutch speed sensor, but no one wants to do it all do is a very simple procedure... also there is no noise from the box at all, until I find some one, no thing on checking the box. If I do it I will make a update.

 

I was also checking this days shifting when engine of, from time to time when sifting from 3rd to 4th, it does not engage 4th instead drops in 1st, also some time skips 4th and goes into 5th... but this is not constant it happened 3 times in 20 shifting.

Also some times the car drives with no problem, the problem with engaging 2nd and reverse is from time to time, and also two times I had a problem with engaging 5th during driving.

 

I will make an update when I change the sensors and if I have a luck to check the box, I hope it will be help full for selespeed drivers the solution of this issue.

 

Thanks/Regards

[Smaky 73]

I'm sorry, your mechanic says he wont do those checks??? I think you need to find another mechanic that isn't scared of work.

[LjuboMK 0]

The sensors (PF2C) were changed, system was calibrated and the problem is gone, 1000 km with out any problem, will see until when

 

The biggest difference from the change of the sensors is the speed of the gear change and the noise from the actuator when changing gears.

The gearchange is much faster in any rpm and the noise during gearchange is reduced a lot, and also the issue with jumping from 1st to 3th and reverse is fixed, now the car is very good to drive it city mode which was not the case before.

 

Now I'm planing to open the box to inspect it and clean it if there is something there.

 

Now two questions for Smaky:

 

1. If I open the gearbox, I know that on the back plate of the box are reverse an 5th gear, also every gearbox Alfa and Fiat regardless of selespeed or manual have problem from time to time with reverse, difficult to engage , I had 156 2.0 twin spark from brand new and I had the same problem with reverse, needing some effort to put it in reverse, my mechanic says to live it alone because is the same with every gearbox from Fiat group. My question is: can this be solved, is there any part that needs to be changed and if it needs which part it is and where can be find, since I'm planing to open the box. Hope my explanation was good.

 

2. There are clutch kits Drive Torque stage1 and 2 on ebay

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DriveTorque-Stage-1-Clutch-Kit-Alfa-Romeo-147-2-0i-16v-Selespeed-07-02-05-05-/311340348087?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item487d54b2b7

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DriveTorque-Stage-2-Clutch-Kit-Alfa-Romeo-156-2-0i-16v-Selespeed-03-02-09-05-/121628025613?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c5198630d

 

are they any good, I'm asking this because I have bought stainless steel manifold 4-2-1 without cats and after this I'm planing to remap it and change the induction pipe from one from 2.5 v6 or gta.. so If I'm doing some modifications it is good to do some for the box, but the question is are those clutch kits good....

 

Regards

[Smaky 73]

1, If you remove the endplate from the gearbox and remove all debris from there then this will help the box to select reverse easirer. (but the only gear you can see there is 5th, reverse is right inside the box), the problem is caused by debris physically stopping the selectors sliding.

 

2, Don't waste your time or money on a remap, they don't work on the TS engine. It has a learning ECU and will just revert to how it thinks it runs best, which will be how it is now. The V6 "S" pipe will make a better sound, but that is about it, you just can't get more air in than the inlet ducts allow.

 

And those clutch kits are a waste of money too.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Smaky

[LjuboMK 0]

Thanks Smaky,

 

It is a JTS engine I have read some posts and have seen on my car that jts is air restricted and also regarding the remap there are a lot positive comments about a remap on a jts....??

 

Before I go there it seems that I will need to change the EV0 for the clutch, it developeed (it had) a jerkiness when cold, meaning that the clutch does not engage and disengage smooth and once during driving the cluth was not engaging enuf and disengaging enuf, every thing elce is new, clutch, sensors, calibration....

 

Regards

[Smaky 73]

Remaps on the JTS do work better, but the engines just don't last long enough to justify doing anything to them.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Smaky

[LjuboMK 0]

Ok, Thanks Smaky, now I will think for the remap, maybe I will go with full exhaust system without cats (anyhow I will not have the cats because I have new decated stainless steel manifold).

 

Regarding the solenoid valves:

 

1. Is the new design of the ev0 better, worth buying it part number 71753760???

 

2. Is ev0 same with ev1 and ev2, the design is the same and physically they are the same, but I have read that the flow rate is different, ev0 10l/min and ev1, ev2 7l/m.

-I'm asking this because I want to put (if possible) used ev2 on the place of ev0, because they have less problems and all ev0 have problems....

 

Hope I was understandable

 

Thanks/Regards

[Smaky 73]

The EV valves are all different and should not be used in different positions.

[LjuboMK 0]

Hi again,

 

After few issues and right adjustment of every thing and changing and control of everything....

 

I have a small clutch slip when the car is cold it affects mostly 3rd and higher gears, the clutch disengages with delay, when warmed

properly it has no problem, this is after 350km after calibration, my mechanic says that the clutch needs to bed in, but....

 

Parts that are changed:

-clutch 8000km ago, 3000km driven with clutch rod on 22,

-all of the PF2C sensor changed with new marelli ones

-accumulator changed with new one

-EV0 changed, new one part number 71753760

-filter on the actuator cleaned

-high pressure sensor changed,

-pump checked in good working order, no problems with pressure

-clutch rod adjusted on 28,035mm warm and 28,350mm cold

-clutch speed sensor checked with no physical damage, meaning that the gearbox is ok, how ever the sensor had

slightly darker color on top...

 

What can cause clutch disengagement slow when the car is cold and with no problem when properly warmed, also when warmed good

it has small judder on take off in start stop traffic????

Many thanks,

Smaky

[Smaky 73]

If gear selection becomes jerky, the first thing to check is the clutch rod length which should be 28 - 28.5mm, if that is fine, then a 2nd gear pull away upto 3000rpm and then stop will smooth things out. if that doesn't then consider replacing the O-rings on the EV0 valve, but unplug the pump and make some gear selections to depressurise the system before you remove the valave, even then it WILL SQIRT FLUID OUT UNDER ABOUT 40 BAR (600psi) so be careful.